Gnolls and Gestalt - help!

[Shin Okada]

LA is difficult to do with gestalt, but requiring it on both sides certainly isn't the correct answer.

Problem in your example is that the one has chosen a "melee-oriented race" as a base of Barbarian/Cleric Gestalt. If you want to make such a character, you should better choose a race with both high physical abilities (and large size, maybe) and High Wis and CHA.

That is the same when making Barbarian/Cleric multiclass character of a character has some prestige class with that kind of multiclassing as perquisites. You don't complain that an Ogre is no good for Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight because an ogre does not have high int, right?

For example, various Yuan-Ti will suit for such gestalt combination.

 

[Nifft]

My rule: You can Gestalt levels of Commoner with LA, but nothing else.

The issue with that is HD-based abilities, like the half-celestial's spell-like ability selection. :\

Certainly more in the direction of balanced than allowing Barbarian levels, but I'm not sure it's all the way there.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

LA is difficult to do with gestalt, but requiring it on both sides certainly isn't the correct answer.

When it comes to LA and gestalt, you have two choices:

1: Nerf templates; or

2: Encourage totally broken PCs via template stacking.

I choose (1). I'd rather disproportionately punish templates, Drow, and other non-Core PC choices than encourage broken stuff.

Cheers, -- N

 

[szilard]

The issue with that is HD-based abilities, like the half-celestial's spell-like ability selection. :\

Certainly more in the direction of balanced than allowing Barbarian levels, but I'm not sure it's all the way there.

Cheers, -- N

I think it is more balanced than requiring LA on both sides... since that ends up unbalancing things the other way....

I haven't come up with anything better.

-Stuart

 

[Nifft]

I think it is more balanced than requiring LA on both sides... since that ends up unbalancing things the other way....

I haven't come up with anything better.

LA is a blunt tool. Gestalt is a major change in the rules. They just don't work well together.

So I prefer to set things up so that they work poorly and are (usually) a bad choice... because IMHO Gestalt is cool enough all by itself.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Herobizkit]

LOL I must be deficient, because I still don't understand what you mean by applying LA "to both sides".

[Edit: "... Now we make them gestalt Barbarian/Clerics. Fred gets to add 10 levels of cleric. If George's LA applies on both sides, he gets to add 5 levels of cleric. I don't see how, if we started with two characters of the same power, adding 10 levels of cleric to one will balance with adding 5 levels of cleric to the other." -- I think this made me Get It. It really is a dicey situation... my upcoming campaign is going to be a high-powered one, so I'm sure I can just ignore "balance". ]

I should point out that, for this particular campaign, most of the races have LA. There is going to be a Gnoll, a Drow, a Duergar, and a Goblin. While the Gobin doesn't have LA, he'll have three strong friends and an animal companion to boot.

I've decided to do option "A". My first level will be "Gnoll"//Bard (or Rogue); my second level will be "Gnoll"//Barbarian. I'm sure this works from a mechanical standpoint... well, mostly sure. This solution works for the Gnoll because he starts with 2 levels of humanoid. For Drow etc, I'm sure it works differently...

So, if I've read correctly, a Drow Sorcerer//Favored Soul 2 is functionally a level 4 character, but gets no extraneous increases in BAB, saves etc. for his +2 LA in levels "before" taking class levels.

The Gnoll Barbarian//Bard (or Rogue) gets 2 levels of "Gnoll" before he starts gaining class levels, but only has a LA of +1. If I'm still figuring this correctly, he would have to be a Brb//Brd 1 in order to "balance" with the Drow;

level 1: Drow//Drow Gnoll//Gnoll (LA +1 on each)
level 2: Drow//Drow Gnoll//Gnoll 1 (LA +1 Drow, 1 HD of "gnoll")
level 3: Sorc//FvSl 1 Gnoll//Gnoll 2 (2nd HD for "gnoll")
level 4: Sorc//FvSl 2 Barb//Bard 1

As the DM, I'm pretty sure Gestalting one level with each level of the Gnoll class works... otherwise, I'd have to keep the Gnoll without class levels in order to stay "balanced" with the other level 2's, even if the drow has a +2 LA to the gnoll's +1.

I'm pretty sure I'm making this more complicated than this has to be, but at least I feel like I'm using my head for more than pr0n and video games. *LOL*

 

[Nifft]

LOL I must be deficient, because I still don't understand what you mean by applying LA "to both sides".

Don't worry too much; it seems like you're doing it correctly anyway.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Herobizkit]

Don't worry too much; it seems like you're doing it correctly anyway.

Yeah, my previous post was SO clear on which way was "correct". But you're right about one thing - I'm done worrying about it. *LOL*