Level Up (A5E) Gnolls (and other evil things)

[Faolyn]

RL religions are vilified as demon worship? Really?

Oh yes. It's particularly common with Buddhism or Hinduism because they're "weird" (i.e., not like the Abrahamic religions). Heck, I've had people in real life assume that, since I'm an atheist, that must mean I worship demons.

 

[TheSword]

Yeah, demons in game are worshiped. The Warlock's class is based on various deals with them (and other, similar entities). But in real life men and women were killed after being accused of having made a pact with such. It might not be entirely racist, but there have been a lot of RL problems based this sort of thing. Here's a link to show how this sort of thing worked out in England.

The big difference is that now no-one is going to be reminded of real world challenges they face because of the Salem Witch Trials.

The justification for why these elements needs to be sanitised is entirely without force or moral argument.

 

[Scribe]

So people who have a problem shouldn't play D&D 5e?

Because that's essentially what anyone who says "It's a group problem" is saying.

The DM can change anything they want.

 

[Scribe]

All the MM looks like is like it's doing the same old same old. The "color coded for your convenience" dragons. The entries that are just "look! Evil thing! Kill it!" Because, even though the line exists, the designers couldn't be bothered making the whole entry more nuanced

Then change it. We don't need every entry from A to Z bloated with '...but some are....' and '...not all...' and '...examples of different....'

Change it if you like.

Justice for noble undead when?

 

[Fifinjir]

There’s been some points about how DMs can do what they want and how not everything has to be gray, which I agree with but I also think gnolls deserve a more active defense of what makes them awesome villains.

5E gnolls are h*cking metal and Yeenogu has become my favorite demon lord based on their descriptions. Their extreme in-group out-group divid coupled with the fluidity of how a cultist can go from one to the other is a great example of an alien mentality. Just imagine you’re preparing for a feasts and suddenly one of the animals you were going to kill and eat comes up and says it wants to sit at the table and eat with you. Then you let them, no questions asked. That’s the relationship between gnolls and Yeenogu cultists in a nutshell.

Speaking of Yeeny, despite not even being a god, how his relationship to his creations and worshipers is described makes it sound far more spiritual and intimate than most of what the gods offer. Yennogu IS hunger, and his people make their hunger his, and as a result they are never alone nor afraid.

And that, being never alone and never afraid, is what makes the lifestyle of the gnolls strangely appealing despite how horrific it is. There’s a sense of comradery with them not found in most monsters, even when they fight amongst themselves the dead are just bright back as witherlings and are right back in the battlegroup, no hard feelings.

If I have a criticism, it’s that the part where they enjoy listening to the leuceota mimic the screams of their victims doesn’t quite fit the “feast” aspect from previously. As I see it, gnolls kill and eat, and everyone is invited to the table. Playing with their food seems like a kind of pointless “by the way did we remind you that these guys are bad?” addition. Also, like Faolyn I think more animals should be subject to the transformation, it would make sense and make them feel less like a “race”.

 

[dave2008]

Oh yes. It's particularly common with Buddhism or Hinduism because they're "weird" (i.e., not like the Abrahamic religions). Heck, I've had people in real life assume that, since I'm an atheist, that must mean I worship demons.

As an atheist myself I can corroborate this statement

 

[FatPandaMonk]

How did you run your encounters? Were the bad guys not obviously doing bad things?

Sometimes. Then it turned into debates on why they did it. Maybe they were forced into this. It is why it fell apart. Six games of debate.

 

[VenerableBede]

It seems like we are stuck at very surface level readings of media these days

Amen!

 

[Stone Dog]

Oh yes. It's particularly common with Buddhism or Hinduism because they're "weird" (i.e., not like the Abrahamic religions). Heck, I've had people in real life assume that, since I'm an atheist, that must mean I worship demons.

Some Buddist guardian entities that would probably be angels in Western cathedrals straight up look like things that would be demons in the same art. So, a kneejerk reaction is probably normal, but refusing to listen to the people explaining things is just stubborn.

"Why do these things in your temples look like demons?"
"Um... they don't?"
"Yeah they do, look at them, all tusks and fangs and horns and hideous rending claws, those are demons!"
"No, they are warrior guards of the temple, they look scary because they are powerful forces against darkness and frighten the hosts of the enemy."
"Well, they look like demons."
"I see what you might mean, but they are protectors of the righteous and solders against hell."
"I am forced to assume you are all infernalists and in league with Satan."
"Okay, now you are just being a jerk."

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Some Buddist guardian entities that would probably be angels in Western cathedrals straight up look like things that would be demons in the same art. So, a kneejerk reaction is probably normal, but refusing to listen to the people explaining things is just stubborn.

"Why do these things in your temples look like demons?"
"Um... they don't?"
"Yeah they do, look at them, all tusks and fangs and horns and hideous rending claws, those are demons!"
"No, they are warrior guards of the temple, they look scary because they are powerful forces against darkness and frighten the hosts of the enemy."
"Well, they look like demons."
"I see what you might mean, but they are protectors of the righteous and solders against hell."
"I am forced to assume you are all infernalists and in league with Satan."
"Okay, now you are just being a jerk."

It could be a real thread on this board...