Gnome Assassin Strategy Help

[I'm A Banana]

So in a few hours, I'm playing a gnome assassin. Character sheet is attached.

Looking for some assistance with the schtick. Specifically, with regards to the stealth rules, since I'll probably be using them a lot.

My main hazard has to do with the invisibility + stealth combo. If I'm in melee with a critter who triggers Fade Away, or if I hit with Gloom Thief, I can become invisible (until the end of my next turn) and, while invisible, I can use Stealth to also become silent. Part of this is thanks to the Assassin's Cloak feat, but by my reading of Stealth, I could also do it "at the end of a move action" without the feat.

Which means I could do something like trigger invisibility, then shift and use Stealth, right? Even without the feat? Invisibility grants me the total concealment I need to use Stealth, yes?

Anyway, while Stealth'd, by my reading of it, I won't keep it for long. Since the condition that grants me "total concealment" in this case seems to be the power that granted me invisibility, when it wears off (the end of my next turn, or in some cases if I make an attack before then), I will also no longer have stealth, unless I get total concealment or cover from somewhere else, right? The fact that stealth itself also gives me invisibility doesn't continue to grant me total concealment, right?

So I could make an enemy guess where my square was (invisible + hiding) until the end of my next turn. Seems like a pretty useful defensive ability, yeah? Even if I'm in melee with the thing, I could vanish, and be in my original square, or in any square next to my original square (thanks to a shift), without it having the slightest idea where I'd be, right? If I didn't have the Assassin's Shroud feat, they could still probably guess the square was in the square they knew I moved to (since I wasn't hidden before the move), right? So in that case, using invisibility to grant me Stealth wouldn't be helpful unless I was moving somewhere that could continue to grant me Stealth(meaning, probably not in direct melee) right?

I can also perhaps use the Shadow Form of the Assassin to use my allies for that...

Then, I loose stealth when I "take an action that causes me to not remain hidden." Meaning, when I loose the concealment (when my invisibility effect ends, unless something else grants me cover or concealment), when I make noise, or maybe when I move more than two squares. So I can still shift and remain hidden (until the invisibility wears off), but if I went invisible, moved, then hid, I'd have to pretty much stay put if I didn't want to become un-hidden?

Essentially, my plan is to use Stealth + Invisibility in combat as a defensive advantage for my AC 16 gnome, and perhaps to gain Combat Advantage for the eventual Shroud attack. My plan is to shroud a target while using my at-wills to get them separated from their allies (using my daily, if they're especially surrounded). Once they have a few shrouds, the plan is to stealth up behind them while they're alone and attack with combat advantage, activating the shrouds and dealing the buckets o'damage. While shrouding, I plan to use my Encounter powers and Stealth + Invisibility to avoid most of the damage directed my way (the stuff that gets through the Defender anyway), until I can move up behind the goober and execute my Assassin's duty.

Folks think this'll work? Any clarifications for the Stealth/Invisibility stuff? Anything I should watch out for, or tricks I haven't thought of?

 

[DracoSuave]

Which means I could do something like trigger invisibility, then shift and use Stealth, right? Even without the feat? Invisibility grants me the total concealment I need to use Stealth, yes?

This is correct.

Anyway, while Stealth'd, by my reading of it, I won't keep it for long. Since the condition that grants me "total concealment" in this case seems to be the power that granted me invisibility, when it wears off (the end of my next turn, or in some cases if I make an attack before then), I will also no longer have stealth, unless I get total concealment or cover from somewhere else, right? The fact that stealth itself also gives me invisibility doesn't continue to grant me total concealment, right?

Naw, Stealth doesn't count as concealment for itself. But, here's the thing. You ONLY need concealment or cover. Total is not required.

Allies don't count for that normally, but cover isn't too hard. And see below.

So I could make an enemy guess where my square was (invisible + hiding) until the end of my next turn. Seems like a pretty useful defensive ability, yeah?

And the combat advantage doesn't hurt either.

Even if I'm in melee with the thing, I could vanish, and be in my original square, or in any square next to my original square (thanks to a shift), without it having the slightest idea where I'd be, right? If I didn't have the Assassin's Shroud feat, they could still probably guess the square was in the square they knew I moved to (since I wasn't hidden before the move), right? So in that case, using invisibility to grant me Stealth wouldn't be helpful unless I was moving somewhere that could continue to grant me Stealth(meaning, probably not in direct melee) right?

Yeah, staying in the square where stealth activates makes guessing your location easier.

I can also perhaps use the Shadow Form of the Assassin to use my allies for that...

Oh hey, that you could.

Then, I loose stealth when I "take an action that causes me to not remain hidden." Meaning, when I loose the concealment (when my invisibility effect ends, unless something else grants me cover or concealment), when I make noise, or maybe when I move more than two squares. So I can still shift and remain hidden (until the invisibility wears off), but if I went invisible, moved, then hid, I'd have to pretty much stay put if I didn't want to become un-hidden?

And don't forget attacking.

Essentially, my plan is to use Stealth + Invisibility in combat as a defensive advantage for my AC 16 gnome, and perhaps to gain Combat Advantage for the eventual Shroud attack. My plan is to shroud a target while using my at-wills to get them separated from their allies (using my daily, if they're especially surrounded). Once they have a few shrouds, the plan is to stealth up behind them while they're alone and attack with combat advantage, activating the shrouds and dealing the buckets o'damage.

Not a bad plan, use the shrouds on a tough enemy while dealing with lesser threats, then backstabssinate the tough enemy.

While shrouding, I plan to use my Encounter powers and Stealth + Invisibility to avoid most of the damage directed my way (the stuff that gets through the Defender anyway), until I can move up behind the goober and execute my Assassin's duty.

Folks think this'll work? Any clarifications for the Stealth/Invisibility stuff? Anything I should watch out for, or tricks I haven't thought of?

The thing to remember, attacking DOES eliminate stealth. That might change things -greatly-.

 

[Turtlejay]

I'm currently playing a stealthy Assassin (Kobold), and yeah, your ideas are all solid. I took the feat to allow Shade Form as an Immediate Interrupt, and I have used it in every combat so far. Halving damage from the attack incoming, plus allowing a Hide check with only concealment means that is essentially one more invisibility power, and supercharged.

Gloom Thief is awesome, but remember that shifting will still provoke, since you are not Hidden until you make your check. At a -5, but still.

My favorite part of the class is the number of powers that make you hard to find, and hard to kill. At 6th level now, I have two utilities that can provide cover/concealment, plus Gloom Thief and Shade Form. Most of the combat I have at least some kind of bonus to defense.

I also got to use the Hidden Insight feat last combat, and it was just as fun as I thought it would be.

Note that Gloom Thief ends at the end of your turn, and has no language about ending when you attack. You can take your turn, and try to move where you still have concealment, and regain your hidden status before you become visible.

Jay

 

[xXElaDriNDrizZztXx]

So far it's looking pretty good. I'd suggest trying a Minotaur Assassin because they got a feat already and it's pretty wicked. Maybe next time!

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I like it! Gnome assassins rock. The only thing I might have done different is put the 8 in Str instead of Wis, but it doesn't really matter either way.