Gnomes! (HUH) What are they good for? Absolutely nothing!

[Umbran]

Its a GAME. Of course you try to win. Its got nothing to do with min/maxing because players were trying to win before min/maxing was even possible.

So long as there are rules, and choices that can be made in character creation, min/maxing is possible.

 

[ExploderWizard]

So long as there are rules, and choices that can be made in character creation, min/maxing is possible.

Of course if you happen to roll a high WIS and choose cleric as a class that is primitive min/maxing granted.

In any system though, one can play to win via decisions made outside of character creation. Playing to win is not antithetical to roleplaying, especially if "winning" is simply surviving until the next adventure.

 

[Umbran]

In any system though, one can play to win via decisions made outside of character creation. Playing to win is not antithetical to roleplaying, especially if "winning" is simply surviving until the next adventure.

That's the thing - playing to "win" depends upon having a defined win condition. Unlike, say, chess, RPGs don't have a single, well-stated win condition. Playing to meet a player-defined win condition is not antithetical to roleplaying, so long as the player goal is in line with the stated characters goals and role.

I have, on occasion, seen a mismatch - where the player played entirely against character in order to "win" (leading one paladin to do rather unpaladin-like things, and a very angry player who didn't understand that this would have repercussions, and ultimately lead to character death, rather than "winning".)

 

[ExploderWizard]

That's the thing - playing to "win" depends upon having a defined win condition. Unlike, say, chess, RPGs don't have a single, well-stated win condition. Playing to meet a player-defined win condition is not antithetical to roleplaying, so long as the player goal is in line with the stated characters goals and role.

I have, on occasion, seen a mismatch - where the player played entirely against character in order to "win" (leading one paladin to do rather unpaladin-like things, and a very angry player who didn't understand that this would have repercussions, and ultimately lead to character death, rather than "winning".)

I think it would be fair to say that the player in question chose.........poorly.

 

[Ryujin]

So long as there are rules, and choices that can be made in character creation, min/maxing is possible.

And in a "co-operative role playing game", winning is Pyrrhic

 

[the Jester]

And in a "co-operative role playing game", winning is Pyrrhic

Not necessarily; sometimes you all win.

 

[Yora]

Well, if you view the world with Dwarves and Halflings as the fixed points of small races, then yes, you may think gnomes are superfluous. But I personally find that to be rather assuming the conclusion of the debate.

I enjoy gnomes greatly as a race that has some elements of dwarves and gnomes, but doesn't come with all the baggage that is attached to those two. As a halfling, everyone is kind of expecting a funny relief character thief with some degree of kleptomania or eating disorders, and as a dwarf a character can always only be dwarf. There is only a single dwarf character in fiction, which has made thousands of appearances in different settings and media. But it's always the identical character.

There's one exception in the Hobbit movie, which is a short guy of thin build with no beard, who is not a miner or racist with an axe or hammer and doesn't show permanent grouchyness, greed, or drunkeness.
In short, he doesn't have even the slightest resemblance to a dwarf in any way. But if you called him a gnome, he might pass quite well.

 

[RedGalaxy00]

It's a story telling game, as are basically all RPGs, of every type, from Table-top games to Video games.

You mean, if they kept practicing hard every day? No.

Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't make any sense to me... I'm not sure what Practicing hard has to do with the point of that sentence.

RPGs have always been, and will always be used best when telling a story. Whether it's something silly like "Who stole Mrs. Hedge's Pie?", to "Why did the god's give up on there mortal subjects, and walk away from it all?" If you want to use a game to tell those stories, I'm positive that Role-Playing Game is just the best way to go about it, 99% of the time, at least to me.

But either way, that isn't the subject of the topic at hand... and I'm pretty sure I've made my point on the subject quite clear... but just in case.

Gnomes =

 

[Dungeoneer]

Gnomes =

Sorry. Gnomes = .

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

There is only a single dwarf character in fiction, which has made thousands of appearances in different settings and media. But it's always the identical character.

I advise you to check out Dragon Age 2. The most popular character in that game is a beardless dwarf Lothario. He's the subject of an impressive amount of sexy fan art on Tumblr and Deviant Art.