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Goblin Picador

Has anyone already mentioned the Kuo-Toa Harpooneers in MM5? Could they be considered to be a preview for these goblin picadors?

IIRC, to simulate what the Kuo-Toa Harpooneers were doing required expotic weapon proficiency plus a specific feat to use the weapon in this specific way, making it pretty unattractive to player characters.
Dausuul said:
Yeah, I put someone on my ignore list recently... then I realized there wasn't any point, since everyone else replied to his posts anyway.
Hehe, sounds familiar. :P
I noticed the same thing and thought 'wouldn't it be nice if all posts quoting said person would be removed as well?'
There are quite a few threads where all post that are on-topic would fit on a single page instead of having to wade through 10 pages to find a single relevant post...ah, well...
 

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Mal Malenkirk said:
With a 1:1 ratio of opponents or worse, the harpoon ability is likely worse than useless.

It looks like it can be a good tactical option, but only if you outnumber the oppositions against whom you are using the harpoon. Say you have 8 goblins including 2 picadors, two soldiers type and four skirmishers. You can use the two Picadors to tie the fighter and warlord and send the four skirmishers against the Wizard and Warlock. The fighter won't be able to help them until he's killed the damn picador. And the picador could be hiding behind the soldier, making it harder to get to him, all but guaranteeing that the two weaker PCs are on their own against the skirmishers. That's great!

But 1:1 (4v4), it's silly because just as the picador ties a PC, that picador ties himself. He hasn't accomplished much. If he has harpooned a defender, the fighter won't care much because he intends to move forward anyway in order to kill the goblins! If there is an additional goblin protecting the picador, the controller and striker are free to do what they want because there is only two goblins left for three PCs. And if there is no soldier protecting him, he'll die fast.

It's like attempting to blitz in football by using as many or fewer rushers as there are offensive linemen (which technically isn't a blitz, I know, and is my point).

If you harppon a ranged attacker, it's no better with only 4 goblins. Say you harpoon the ranger (or any PCs who is trying to avoid melee with your goblins). Next round, what? You pull him? Tug of war is a standard action. Your goblins will be sacrificing 25% of their damage dealing potential against PCs who aren't returning the favour. And since the defender and leader (the two likely melee combatants) are free of their movements, you have accomplished squat. What does it matter that you pull the ranger toward the picador? If you have no soldier in front of you to attack the ranger, he'll just shoot at you while you waste your time pulling. If you do have soldiers to pull the ranger against, the lots of you are obviously open to an area attack from the controller and will then get charged by the defender and leader. With just 4 goblins against 4 PCs, you are wasting your time with this harpoon schtick.

As a result, it's a poor PCs weapon because they rarely have numerical advantage. And when they do have it, they are often facing monsters who are either too big to be harpooned or have great fortitude.

But for a horde of goblin, it looks like a fantastic opportunity to make the fight memorable.


See I agree with you here that the harpoon is not a universal weapon, but would have to be saved for useful situations. But my 3E fighter likewise carried a net in his haversack for those times when the -4 nonproficient penalty was worth it. I see the use of situational items, and that it takes a good player to anticipate their use.

I'd really like to see what other type of weapon tactics they have, I've even been considering what type of homebrew feats and powers I might implement down the line for useful and memorable NPCs.
 

Jhaelen said:
Has anyone already mentioned the Kuo-Toa Harpooneers in MM5? Could they be considered to be a preview for these goblin picadors?

IIRC, to simulate what the Kuo-Toa Harpooneers were doing required expotic weapon proficiency plus a specific feat to use the weapon in this specific way, making it pretty unattractive to player characters.
Hehe, sounds familiar. :P
I noticed the same thing and thought 'wouldn't it be nice if all posts quoting said person would be removed as well?'
There are quite a few threads where all post that are on-topic would fit on a single page instead of having to wade through 10 pages to find a single relevant post...ah, well...

Since I can do stuff like this
Jhaelen said:
Mustrum Ridcully is the smartest person ever and his improvised powe guidelines should be in the DMG, if they probably weren't already! And actually, this is a fake quote. Jhaelen never said this, to my knowledge...
Or like this:

This is what Jhaelen wrote on that topic:
I noticed the same thing and thought 'wouldn't it be nice if all posts quoting said person would be removed as well?'
I guess there are some practical limitations due to the board software. ;)


On a related note, 2 members on the ignore list! Hahahaha [/Impersonate_Count_Count] :(
but probably not you, fellow reader
 


*channels hong*
Why does no one listen to me?
No one listens to meeeee!

I hear you.

I still think "Make Stuff Up" sucks as a rule.

But if the guidelines in the DMG take your post as a baseline and go into some more depth on it, it might be "good enough."
 

Picador has been pretty well summed up I guess, cool monster that I'm going to use for tomorrow nights run through Second Son. (I've got a plan!!!!)

Guess we'll have to find another thing to discuss now, I'm sure I can find something.
 


Spatula said:
The Wizards boards? I would think that's where most of the fanboys congregate...

Ehh, it isn't so much the friendliest place as so much as it is the place where the most dead-set on either side duke it out, hell the CoC is like a battlefield.
 
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Bagpuss said:
Plus while is says Standard action, Str vs Fort to remove, surely some player is going to ask if he just can't cut the rope? Or Tug the goblin on his turn. To which the DM is going to have to rule on the fly.

Cut the rope? Sure, give me a Str vs Fort to succeed.

Tug the goblin? Give me a Str vs Fort. You missed? He doesn't move. You hit? Okay, he drops the rope, so he doesn't get tugged, but hey, you're loose!

-Hyp.
 

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