JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Off Topic, but whatever happened to Shark? I thought he was doing an adventure for En World.
Goblins? Boring? I shouldn't think so.
- Thread starter Arrgh! Mark!
- Start date
shilsen
Adventurer
Yoink! My PCs just gave some people a reason to put contracts out on them. Thanks a lot!Henry said:In our Eberron Campaign, my players have learned to loathe three words:
Goblin Death Squad.
Nothing like having the Shaarat Kesh, Darguun's elite assassin forces, taking a contract out on you at an unknown employer's request.
Agback offered some excellent advice in How would you defend your subterranean kingdom?:
Another constraint to consider is that a goblin tribe is probably rather poor. They might have expensive one-shot defences for dire emergencies, but most of the defences will have to be rather cheap or else reusable.
A couple of obvious defences spring to mind:
1) The entrance tunnels and outer caverns should be defended through arrow slits and murder holes from spaces that are connected back into the secure areas, but which have no entrances into the areas they are defending. And each one should be covered by another one. That way any attackers will have to file past an arrow slit/murder hole, their pioneers will not be able to create a safe passage for the back up that follows them.
2) The complex should be divided into compartments that are sealed off by airtight doors or by water-filled U-passages so that we can't be smoked out. On the other hand, we ought to invest in [items that allow us to cast] gas spells like Stinking Cloud, and should install furnaces in which we can burn sulphur etc. to fill areas that have fallen to the enemy with poisonous and irritating smoke.
3) Tunnelling is extremely laborious, so we probably can't afford to collapse roofs too often. Nevertheless rigging chambers and tunnels so that we can collapse them is a good insurance policy against dire threats. The cheaper alternative (for use against lesser threats) is to rig some areas and tunnels so that we can flood them with water (water, ewspecially seeing that it need not be of potable quality, is much much cheaper than oil and available in larger quantities).
4) If we get lucky we might find that some of our tunnels collect firedamp. That's not much of a problem for us, because we don't need fire to see. But if we can either mislead humans into those tunnels or somehow introduce the firedamp into the tunnels they are in it ought to be good for a giggle.
5) Cheap and deadly. We're probably too poor to afford Fireballs and Cloudkills. But we can, for instance, breed wasps and poisonous centipedes. When an area is captured by the enemy, drop in a beehive or a bushel of black widows.
6) The enemy must attack through limited ground area. So let's drop tanglefoot bags or winchesters of cooking oil on the floor in bottlenecks, and cover the area through a pair of arrowslits.
7) Borrow neighbours' defences. We can construct tunnels into the lairs of monsters that are more powerful than ourselves, but that don't share an elf's ability to detect secret doors, or that are large to squeeze down our tunnels. When attacked, we decoy our enemies into the tunnels and let them fight it out with the neighbours. Or we build lairs and encourage dangerous beasts to settle in them.
8) Stagecraft. Use puppets, painted backdrops &c (instead of expensive illusions) to fool the attackers into firing off their spells.
9) Cultivate slimes and deadly fungi. Breed dangerous beasts in cages and release them into captured parts of the complex.
10) Install voice tubes. These can be used for quick discreet communications, and can also be used to eavesdrop into areas that have fallen to the enemy and in which they might be planning their next assaults.
11) No-one expects to find a 'trip'wire at 4'6" above the floor.
12) Keep hostages, and kill them at the slightest provocation.
13) If we manage to fight off an attack by terrorists, launch a reprisal against the community from which they staged their raid.
14) Go to some efforts to make sure that attackers cannot easily revivify their fallen or heal their injured. A reputation for irreversible deadliness will to some extent deterr aggression. So finish off their wounded, capture their fallen, and feed them to the wolves.
15) Be prepared to abandon our complex and escape through any of several tunnels we can collapse after we have passed. Better homeless than dead.
A couple of obvious defences spring to mind:
1) The entrance tunnels and outer caverns should be defended through arrow slits and murder holes from spaces that are connected back into the secure areas, but which have no entrances into the areas they are defending. And each one should be covered by another one. That way any attackers will have to file past an arrow slit/murder hole, their pioneers will not be able to create a safe passage for the back up that follows them.
2) The complex should be divided into compartments that are sealed off by airtight doors or by water-filled U-passages so that we can't be smoked out. On the other hand, we ought to invest in [items that allow us to cast] gas spells like Stinking Cloud, and should install furnaces in which we can burn sulphur etc. to fill areas that have fallen to the enemy with poisonous and irritating smoke.
3) Tunnelling is extremely laborious, so we probably can't afford to collapse roofs too often. Nevertheless rigging chambers and tunnels so that we can collapse them is a good insurance policy against dire threats. The cheaper alternative (for use against lesser threats) is to rig some areas and tunnels so that we can flood them with water (water, ewspecially seeing that it need not be of potable quality, is much much cheaper than oil and available in larger quantities).
4) If we get lucky we might find that some of our tunnels collect firedamp. That's not much of a problem for us, because we don't need fire to see. But if we can either mislead humans into those tunnels or somehow introduce the firedamp into the tunnels they are in it ought to be good for a giggle.
5) Cheap and deadly. We're probably too poor to afford Fireballs and Cloudkills. But we can, for instance, breed wasps and poisonous centipedes. When an area is captured by the enemy, drop in a beehive or a bushel of black widows.
6) The enemy must attack through limited ground area. So let's drop tanglefoot bags or winchesters of cooking oil on the floor in bottlenecks, and cover the area through a pair of arrowslits.
7) Borrow neighbours' defences. We can construct tunnels into the lairs of monsters that are more powerful than ourselves, but that don't share an elf's ability to detect secret doors, or that are large to squeeze down our tunnels. When attacked, we decoy our enemies into the tunnels and let them fight it out with the neighbours. Or we build lairs and encourage dangerous beasts to settle in them.
8) Stagecraft. Use puppets, painted backdrops &c (instead of expensive illusions) to fool the attackers into firing off their spells.
9) Cultivate slimes and deadly fungi. Breed dangerous beasts in cages and release them into captured parts of the complex.
10) Install voice tubes. These can be used for quick discreet communications, and can also be used to eavesdrop into areas that have fallen to the enemy and in which they might be planning their next assaults.
11) No-one expects to find a 'trip'wire at 4'6" above the floor.
12) Keep hostages, and kill them at the slightest provocation.
13) If we manage to fight off an attack by terrorists, launch a reprisal against the community from which they staged their raid.
14) Go to some efforts to make sure that attackers cannot easily revivify their fallen or heal their injured. A reputation for irreversible deadliness will to some extent deterr aggression. So finish off their wounded, capture their fallen, and feed them to the wolves.
15) Be prepared to abandon our complex and escape through any of several tunnels we can collapse after we have passed. Better homeless than dead.
Last edited:
In the game I am running, goblins constituted the principle foes of the first half of the first story arc. As the party was made up of first-level characters, I did not power up the individual gobins (I did power up a leader type, giving him some ranger and rogue levels; I also included one shaman and one cleric), but the party was quite large (9 PCs, plus 4-9 NPCs at any given time), so I did not feel bad about using large numbers of goblins, powering up their leaders, and using some sneaky tactics.
The first encounter the party had with the goblins was with the leader and shaman mentioned above, 8 standard goblins (from the MM, but armed with short bows and spears instead of morning stars and javelins); I then mounted all of the goblins on wolves (not worgs, not dire wolves, plain wolves). I played it as a pretty straight cavalry charge.
It was a difficult encounter in terms of using up party resources (spells and action points), but not particularly morbid or mortal.
When the party next encountered the goblins, this time at their lair, they faced a foe which fought differently than the goblin wolf riders mentioned above (I was trying to distinguish different factions within the tribe via different strategies/tactics). These goblins made use of alarms, sentries, traps (particularly pit traps), and the natural darkness of their lair. Rather than rush out to meet the PCs, they waited patiently, luring the PCs into rooms where they had positional advantage, only to retreat deeper into the cave system if anything went slightly against them.
One trick that worked well was to have a relatively small group of goblin archers advance and fire on the party, when the party pursued, the goblin archers fled deeper into the caves. Unfortuantly the room they fled into had a shallow area in the center of the floor where a contingent of spear-wielders were waiting. The spear-goblins charged up a out of the shallow, much to the chagrin of the PCs.
I also stuck a bugbear in as the new king of the goblin tribe; he had recently usurped the throne of the wolf-riding ranger/rogue, relegating him to master of hounds. The bugbear packed some much needed punch (too much in fact-as I had to play him as less intelligent than he was to spare party lives- fortunately, I was able to play him off as just being arrogant to the point of taunting the PCs). After watching him crush a few of the dwarven warrior NPCs, the party was fairly scared for their collective lives.
I also used the goblin encounters to interject some moral ambiguity. When the bugbear was hurting, he fled deeper into the caves to take cover behind the goblin women and children, calling on them to offer their lives to protect his own. I loved watching the good-hearted female drow in the party squirm as she was forced to cut her way through goblin women and children. Further complicating things was the presence of a young human girl (sorcerer) who had taken up with the goblins after the people of her village had turned against and burned her mother and their home.
Just a few specific thoughts on how I've used some of the ideas described thus far in this thread. Does anyone else have any specific information on how their non-boring goblin encounters have gone? I really like the idea of goblins spoiling food and laming horses (non-magically) and think that I shall have to use that when the PCs meet the lone survivor of the goblin massacre (and his goblin death squad) later in the game.
Chad
The first encounter the party had with the goblins was with the leader and shaman mentioned above, 8 standard goblins (from the MM, but armed with short bows and spears instead of morning stars and javelins); I then mounted all of the goblins on wolves (not worgs, not dire wolves, plain wolves). I played it as a pretty straight cavalry charge.
It was a difficult encounter in terms of using up party resources (spells and action points), but not particularly morbid or mortal.
When the party next encountered the goblins, this time at their lair, they faced a foe which fought differently than the goblin wolf riders mentioned above (I was trying to distinguish different factions within the tribe via different strategies/tactics). These goblins made use of alarms, sentries, traps (particularly pit traps), and the natural darkness of their lair. Rather than rush out to meet the PCs, they waited patiently, luring the PCs into rooms where they had positional advantage, only to retreat deeper into the cave system if anything went slightly against them.
One trick that worked well was to have a relatively small group of goblin archers advance and fire on the party, when the party pursued, the goblin archers fled deeper into the caves. Unfortuantly the room they fled into had a shallow area in the center of the floor where a contingent of spear-wielders were waiting. The spear-goblins charged up a out of the shallow, much to the chagrin of the PCs.
I also stuck a bugbear in as the new king of the goblin tribe; he had recently usurped the throne of the wolf-riding ranger/rogue, relegating him to master of hounds. The bugbear packed some much needed punch (too much in fact-as I had to play him as less intelligent than he was to spare party lives- fortunately, I was able to play him off as just being arrogant to the point of taunting the PCs). After watching him crush a few of the dwarven warrior NPCs, the party was fairly scared for their collective lives.
I also used the goblin encounters to interject some moral ambiguity. When the bugbear was hurting, he fled deeper into the caves to take cover behind the goblin women and children, calling on them to offer their lives to protect his own. I loved watching the good-hearted female drow in the party squirm as she was forced to cut her way through goblin women and children. Further complicating things was the presence of a young human girl (sorcerer) who had taken up with the goblins after the people of her village had turned against and burned her mother and their home.
Just a few specific thoughts on how I've used some of the ideas described thus far in this thread. Does anyone else have any specific information on how their non-boring goblin encounters have gone? I really like the idea of goblins spoiling food and laming horses (non-magically) and think that I shall have to use that when the PCs meet the lone survivor of the goblin massacre (and his goblin death squad) later in the game.
Chad
mmadsen said:
Sorry for the offtopicness, but does anyone have a list of books he has contributed to? I have never read one of his threads before and I have to say that I already miss him not being here. :\
And for the record, I do like the idea of turning goblins into fey and giving them spell-like abilities that are fairy-tale in nature. Maybe by using the bogie from Bastion's Faeries and altering their spell-like abilities.
Christopher Lambert
First Post
In a Dragonlance campaign I play in, my 3rd-level party got their butts handed to them by goblins. Twice. In consecutive encounters.
However the second time they were winged goblins so I don't know if they count.
The first time we got attacked by 2 5th-level warrior goblins. One shot us with a poisoned blowdart that inflicted a limited confusion effect (non-magical) and also inflicted -3 to hit. Every party member was affected by this, even the barbarian. Plus we occasionally tried to hit each other, but fortunately the -3 to hit saved our butts. Weird, that.
He fired, then used the Hide skill (at a -10 penalty). Only two party members saw them more than occasionally when this happened. Good thing they weren't rogues.
The second goblin had a red-hot poker but he got hit by the barbarian in the first round. Need I say more.
There was an old Dragonlance book that had these types of goblins, along with goblins using morninstars with filth fever on them and goblins that would throw jars containing slimes, oozes, etc in them. Nasty.
IMO a goblin should take Weapon Finesse and use a light weapon. Yeah the damage will suck, but that's not as bad as not hitting at all.
However the second time they were winged goblins so I don't know if they count.
The first time we got attacked by 2 5th-level warrior goblins. One shot us with a poisoned blowdart that inflicted a limited confusion effect (non-magical) and also inflicted -3 to hit. Every party member was affected by this, even the barbarian. Plus we occasionally tried to hit each other, but fortunately the -3 to hit saved our butts. Weird, that.
He fired, then used the Hide skill (at a -10 penalty). Only two party members saw them more than occasionally when this happened. Good thing they weren't rogues.
The second goblin had a red-hot poker but he got hit by the barbarian in the first round. Need I say more.
There was an old Dragonlance book that had these types of goblins, along with goblins using morninstars with filth fever on them and goblins that would throw jars containing slimes, oozes, etc in them. Nasty.
IMO a goblin should take Weapon Finesse and use a light weapon. Yeah the damage will suck, but that's not as bad as not hitting at all.
silentspace
First Post
FWIW the 3.5 MM 1st lvl warrior goblin used only 3 of its 8 skill points. Here's a breakdown:
Hide +5 (0 ranks +1 dex +4 size)
Listen +2 (1cc ranks -1 wis +2 alertness)
Move Silently +5 (0 ranks +1 dex +4 racial)
Ride +4 (-1 ranks[!] +1 dex +4 racial)
Spot +2 (1cc ranks -1 wix +2 alertness)
Total ranks spent: 2 (1cc) +2 (1cc) -1 (!) = 3
Hide +5 (0 ranks +1 dex +4 size)
Listen +2 (1cc ranks -1 wis +2 alertness)
Move Silently +5 (0 ranks +1 dex +4 racial)
Ride +4 (-1 ranks[!] +1 dex +4 racial)
Spot +2 (1cc ranks -1 wix +2 alertness)
Total ranks spent: 2 (1cc) +2 (1cc) -1 (!) = 3
hmmm.
I had on character concept that was a half-celestial elvish ranger with a high-level mostly retired elven cleric for a mother (mom NG, C-Ranger CG). The two of them made a mutual defense pact with the local band of goblins (majority true neutral to lawful neutral) and settled in the same valley.
Mom provided the healing and general defense/buffs, half celestial kid provided the aerial support and the goblins generally had alot of fun with who-ever was stupid enough to poke their nose in the valley.
And since most of the goblins lived in the surrounding hill-sides, any neer-do-well's who happened by saw only two 'helpless' she-elves living in a cottage. Imagine their surprise when they tried something interesting.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
The goblins fondly called the elf-ladies 'arrow-bait'
I had on character concept that was a half-celestial elvish ranger with a high-level mostly retired elven cleric for a mother (mom NG, C-Ranger CG). The two of them made a mutual defense pact with the local band of goblins (majority true neutral to lawful neutral) and settled in the same valley.
Mom provided the healing and general defense/buffs, half celestial kid provided the aerial support and the goblins generally had alot of fun with who-ever was stupid enough to poke their nose in the valley.
And since most of the goblins lived in the surrounding hill-sides, any neer-do-well's who happened by saw only two 'helpless' she-elves living in a cottage. Imagine their surprise when they tried something interesting.
The goblins fondly called the elf-ladies 'arrow-bait'
Last edited:
Similar Threads
