Gods and powerful Outsiders

[LoneWolf23]

Bought Armies of the Abyss recently, and I must admit, I do like it's concept of Demon Princes granting spells to Thaumaturges. And it got me to thinking...

What, exactly, is the conceptual difference between a Lawful Evil God like Hextor (capable of granting spells to Clerics) and an extremely powerful Archdevil like Mephisto (who can't grant cleric spells)? If the Lawful Evil God is, in fact, much more powerful, why doesn't he rule his own level of Hell, then? Why just one large cube in Acheron?

I don't see why other very powerful, High-Level Outsiders like Archdevils, Archangels or other mighty Outsiders (like Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos) would be unable to grant spells to Clerics and the like. The line seperating Gods from high-powered Outsiders (and potentially Ascended mortals) should be thinned out a bit.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Maybe it's like the leadership feat; some player characters want followers, so they take the feat. Others don't, so they don't take it.

 

[the Jester]

I'm all for powerful outsiders that grant spells to clerics. I just used a priest of Juiblex in my game, f'rinstance.

I always thought that lower level spells were granted by angels and stuff anyway (in 1e 1st and 2nd level spells were granted by faith, 3rd to 5th were granted by intermediaries and 6th to 7th by the deities themselves).

 

[Randolpho]

The answers to this and all your other divine questions can be found in Deities and Demigods. A fine read, I highly recommend it.

 

[Zigmutt]

Another book you might want to get is "EVIL" I think Mongoose put it out. It is a very detailed, and fun, book on villains and good warriors turned to the other side.

There are things like pact with the devil, controlling demons, and more...

but there is a large section on what you are asking about- but not daily spells, but more like spell like abilities, and what not.

and to answer your question:
My take on it is a deity works on worship- A devil does not. So because a deity must gain followers, it rewards those that believe with daily spells. Devils and other powerful beings have their own power, and can dominate or reward as they wish. Because of this, they are more reluctant to grant daily spells, but have to give something for the oyalty of the followers, so grant more along the lines of abilities.

kind of a ONE-TIME gift for your services. Whereas a deity has to string you along and make you worship for extended amounts of time. If you stop worshipping, you lose power...

 

[Randolpho]

Again, I must suggest Deities and Demigods, because things like this:

My take on it is a deity works on worship- A devil does not. So because a deity must gain followers, it rewards those that believe with daily spells. Devils and other powerful beings have their own power, and can dominate or reward as they wish. Because of this, they are more reluctant to grant daily spells, but have to give something for the oyalty of the followers, so grant more along the lines of abilities.

Are covered in the suggested rules.

Zigmutt, *your* gods may require followers/worshippers for power, but another setting may not work that way. In other settings the gods may get their power from some other source (say an overdeity ala Forgotten Realms), yet still grant spells for kicks and giggles.

All of these issues are covered in D&Dg. A *really* good resource for setting building.

 

[LoneWolf23]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions, guys. I already have Evil, Deities and Demigods, along with Manual of the Planes, Call of Cthulhu, the 2E complete Priest's handbook, and some other sources for this project.

Right now, my mythology is still in the planning stages, but I was planning on a powerful Christianity-like religion centered around a Philosphy or Ascended Mortal. This faith would be Multi-Aspected (as suggested in Dragon #283, Do-it-yourself Deities), with an order of healers, an order of holy warriors, an order of Inquisitors, etc.

But another concept I had was for there to be other "Deities", Outsiders and Ascended Mortal creatures of great power, dwelling in the outer planes, but interacting with the Prime through mortal agents (Clerics, Druids, Thaumaturges, etc), classified as Primordial, Aligned/Elemental and Ascended.

The Primodial Deities would be Mythos-like creatures like Cthulhu, Hastur and Nyarlathotep as Primordial beings as old as Time. I even considered making a new version of Tiamat as such a Primodial Being, mother of all Dragons, Good, Evil and Neutral. These beings would have a mindset too alien for humans, and would be mostly be worshipped by monsters.

The Aligned Deities would be High-Powered Demon Princes, Archdevils and Archangels, along with Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos. The Rulers of Djinni kind and other elemental Gods would be similar beings. While more approachable to Humans, these beings would be primarily focused on their alignment or element, and would suffer from a form of tunnel vision because of it.

Finally, the Ascended Deities would be formerly Epic-Level Heroes having left the Mortal plane to become gods. These beings would be your traditional Olympian/Asgardian style deities, and be the most human-like in mindset.

I also toyed with the idea of having a number of commonly worshipped deities having multiple identities in various lands. Thus, a chaotic evil god of war might be worshipped as Gruumsh by the Orcs, and as Ares by a group of human warriors.

Any comments/suggestions?

 

[LoneWolf23]

Just wanted to bump the thread a bit, and add some new ideas I had today.

One of the ideas for the Cosmology/Mythology of the main campaign world would involve an "Order from Chaos" and "Divine Body Creation" myth, where the Gods slew the Dragon Goddess Tiamat, then dissected her body to create the Universe. Bones for stone, breath for air, blood for water and glare of her eyes for fire, that sort of thing. Or at least, that's what the Humanoids would claim.

The Dragons and reptilian races would claim that Tiamat allowed herself to split into the component pieces of the Universe, and hence became the Multiverse itself, until the day she has enough and decides to reassemble herself, destroying all of creation. The Good Dragons would worship her aspect as the Creator, the Evil Dragons would worship her Destroyer aspect, The Neutrals would bounce back and forth between the aspects, and all would see the humanoids' deities as false gods. (like Taiia from Deities and Demigods)