Going nova and non-dungeon crawl adventures

[Nytmare]

Just before my last campaign ended, we decided that normally, the full benefits of an extended rest (surges and dailies and magic items) could only be gained once per session.

We didn't really get to put it through the paces, but I'm assuming that the rule is going to carry over into our new game.

 

[Zinovia]

I wonder how far along you are.... mainly because I am running #8 now.. and I have had troubles with the one-battle per day in a long while. As a matter of fact, they are currently 3 encounters into a 15 encounter 'day'

We just finished #4 The Mad King's Banquet, and the group has teleported to Ostalin on their way to the Monastery in #5. This one will have some single combat days, but I will try to minimize or eliminate those as much as possible.

I may try to set up a set of linked encounters leading up to a suitable BBEG, rather than having the confrontation as a single scary fight. The problem I see with doing that is that you wind up going from one fight to the next, spending much of the session in combat with no roleplaying and investigation breaks between.

As an aside, I deliberately avoided reintroducing "Rope Trick" back into the game, as they did in WotBS #4. That spell was the most egregious offender in the 15 minute adventuring day, and needed to be pruned from the game. Adding it back in as a plot device just because it was used in the original 3.5 version was a poorly thought out decision.

Thngs I have done to speed up losses of healing surges has been modified skill challenges {search "lethal obsideon" here for more} and I have ensured the group has motivation to keep moving...

Terrain hazards are one way to do it, although I don't want to make it too frustrating or require too much bookkeeping.

I also agree with the 'day = scene' idea above and have looked at earning an extended rest as a skill challenge {that paying gold at an inn can auto succeed}..but hadn't gone that route yet.

It is a tempting model since it allows the adventure to unfold at whatever pace makes sense without making combats easier than they should be because of going nova all the time. I like the idea of the skill challenge. It could involve choosing a defensible campsite, figuring out where to place guards, and banking the fire so it doesn't attract unwelcome attention. The Inn is safe, hence automatic success. This doesn't work as well if they are staying in a safe place such as an inn or manor house for most of the adventure. I doubt my group would be on board with disallowing an extended rest when they sleep because of what is happening in the story. If it works in the dungeon, it works in the town. We are too far into the game to change it.

I will just have to see that at least some days have multiple fights, and others have one really tough fight where it's go nova or die. The upcoming mods will make that easier I think.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

#4 and #5 were rather combat sparse... one option is lean away from combat being the plot driver..so that going nova and easy fights dont mean auto win. Its getting the right fights that matter.
Another option is waves of minions.. nova doesn't help when there are 50 bad guys!


It was hard to shift from the 3e paradigm, but I definately like it more.

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[Arlough]

Well, I can think of two ways to mitigate this. Make that three. I haven't checked out WotBS (I really need to) so I don't know how well these will fit. I'll let you be the judge.

• Focus on the Points of Light aspect, but abstract it further. Determine how dangerous an area is on a 1-20 scale (1 being civilized and policed by armies of lawful-good paladins, 20 being wild and particularly dangerous). For every X distance/time they travel/spend there, they make a roll (referenced as a PoL roll from now on.) If they hit the number or below, they roll 1d6 to see how many surges they loose. They can mitigate these by spending a daily to cancel out two surges. If they roll < threat-5, then it is a L to L+1 encounter, and at < level-10 it becomes a L+2 to L+3 encounter. If they take special care (spend other valuable resources of some sort) they get bonuses to the PoL roll proportional to the value of the resource being spent. This can be hand-waved as "There are many challengers for you today, but none so worthy they need mention."
  
• You can deem areas where extended rest is impossible/impractical. If you don't want to be tyrannical about this, give them a saving throw for each X hour(s) with a failed save being a L-3 to L-1 encounter. Enough that they have to start over on their rest, not enough to give them viable XP. You could also just have them loose surges in a way similar to the PoL method, but make it half as many surges lost. If they take special care setting up camp, they get a bonus to the saving throw.
  
• Have skill challenges attack back. I have been coming up with my own system on this where skill challenges act similarly to the combat system, but it is still in beta. If you would like, I can send you what I have on it, and you can decide if it is right for you.

Mainly, you problem is that they have no need for resource management. So having ways to deplete resources that don't get in the way of story has become a necessity.

 

[andy3k]

I propose a couple of solutions to the problem that don't involve random encounters; solutions that work even if the characters are inside a palace where random encounters of the discussed variety break the verisimilitude.

First solution - back to back encounters. If you run two encounters back to back, without time for a short rest, going nova can be a lifesaver instead of a show stopper.

Second solution - toughen the encounter but not the monsters. You don't want to increase the monster defenses or hit points so that one combat stretches out to 1.5 or 2 hours. Instead, add other aspects to the battle that drain resources.

Examples:

1. The room is filled with noxious gas. Every round, each character rolls an Endurance check and tracks the result. After every two accumulated failed Heal or Endurance checks, they lose a healing surge.

2. The characters/players realize that the monsters' health is regenerating unreasonably and that the magic altar in the middle of the room is the source. Once they roll a successful skill check to determine the nature of the altar, the DM tells them they must attack the altar with encounter or daily powers to destroy the altar. The DM knows, but does not tell the players, that they need 5 successful attacks with encounter or daily powers to destroy the altar. Give the altar defense scores appropriate, or slightly higher than, the other monsters in the encounter.

Those are just a few ideas. I'm sure you can generate more.

 

[eamon]

I prefer plot solutions over houserules.

I don't think regular novas are actually a problem. If you know they'll nova, make the encounters harder - so what if city encounters tend to be more vicious, that's OK, isn't it?

Outside of the city, the occasional unpredictable nightly encounter should keep them from nova-ing.

In the city, I love andy3k's solution of the occasional back-to-back encounter. Again, it doesn't have to happen every time for PC's to get careful. Similarly, unique encounter effects that make encounters harder is fine too. Magic altars are flavorful, as andy3k suggests, and make sense to be more common in cities than in the countryside. Entirely reasonable would also be that enemies in cities have better equipment - give em alchemical items well over their level. They're overpriced, but that's good. It encourages players to finish em quickly - to capture some really valuable potions/smokebombs, etc. So it's a carrot (valuable loot) and a stick (dangerous enemies) simultaneously. If you do this, make sure to let the characters know - make a winnable perception/arcana/whatever check, and after the first item use with visible effects tell them regardless - it won't work as well if the player's don't understand what's going on.

But really, I wouldn't consider nova-ing a problem a priori. Sometimes you want resource management to be part of the game, but you don't need it every day, every session.

 

[keterys]

The biggest problem with low encounter days is that it totally skews class balance, the more so the higher level you go.

And it starts to really strain disbelief if you're _constantly_ in a rush or your enemies are always weirdly equipped or have a backup team of assassins for when you rest.

House rules aren't necessarily the most awesome solution, but sometimes they really, really work better.