Going to church? Don't forget your sawed-off shotgun!

[ssampier]

You shot zombie flanders-he was a zombie?

I'm trying really hard to avoid politics in my post.

In a normal real-world church I would not bring any firearm. Since this is CoC and anything can happen, I think it's normal to expect a little over-preparation/paranoia.

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

My first thought was that he didn't really get CoC, at least CoC as I know it. In my experiences with the game my character normally runs the other way when they see a zombie (at least the first time you see one). You don't run up and shoot it.

Then again, maybe my experience to CoC is different to everyone elses.

Olaf the Stout

 

[WayneLigon]

There's no amount of justification you can bring to this situation that makes any sense at all, whatsoever. Unless Mr Archeologist has had a previous history of dealing with the Mythos and was a little unbalanced to begin with, there's no reason to assume he even owns a firearm, much less packs it around with him.

The 'world of CoC' some people mention above is our world and nothing much is different about it save for the existance of such things. Cops and lawyers, hearing that you had a concealed illegal firearm to 'deal with the monsters no-one knows about' are just going to throw you into a lunatic asylum. (And depending on the state, that ends your chance of ever owning any firearm, ever again).

Also since it's a sawed-off shotgun, your DM needs to look up the gun laws for his state. In Alabama, for instance, a private citizen cannot even own a sawed-off shotgun, much less have a concealed carry permit for it. Gun permits do not transfer well from state to state, either; crossing a state line you may gain or lose privleges if they even recognize your states permit (not all do).

 

[Nikroecyst]

Personally I think it boils down to an Character Argument not a Player Arguement. Let the complaining player have his character take it up with the Shooting Player's Character. Character to character, it could perhaps make for some good in-character chat that would lead every player to better understand each other's expectations for every character to better understand thier ally's POV, thus possible resolving the arguement without making it personal.

Players who work together have a better chance of surviving longer. That should be a point made to all players at the table.

However this is my opinion. As I said before I've never played CoC so im just making an assumption based on pervious game experiences with other dark games (like vampire, or horror dnd).

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Initiative is rolled, ACs are called for, and as the Half-Orc answers my girlfriend pipes up, "Hold up, your AC could only be.... are you wearing ARMOUR in bed?"

This is why my characters, once they have the funds, have their mithral chain shirt nighties, and weapons at hand.

The "you get ambushed at night" trick gets played entirely too often for my tastes.

Brad

 

[Wraith-Hunter]

To add to the discussion, if this were a modern day setting it would be much more likely to have a pistol or revolver than a sawed-off shot gun. If it is a pistol gripped double barrel like you see in the movies, it is going to be hard to conceal. If it is a warmer climate even harder to conceal. I live in FL and when I carry sometimes I only carry a very small semi auto (kel-tec p32) my glock 30 is much harder to conceal in summer clothes and I have a medium build. Even harder if you are thin. (.32 compared to a .45) If your a big guy it is easier to conceal a larger sidearm. A sawed-off shot gun is going to be hard to conceal in anything other than a trench coat.

Not sure how CoC handles firearms, never played it, but the effective range is going to be very short and accuracy is a joke. I do IDPA and it is hard enough to hit stationary targets at upto 50 yards with a semiauto pistol. If you want to nix him do it on range, reload time, rounds (2 rounds in the example) gun vs 15 for a Glock 17 9mm (30 round magaznes are available but are long, you can see them in T3 and Transporter 2 in full auto glock 18's) or 13 in a Glock 21 (.45) or 8 in a Colt (1911 .45) (Punisher Movie). Or even 5-7 rounds in a revolver, you can load fast with speed loaders but they are bulky. Even with a revolver or small auto you will have 6 shots to the sawed off's 2. And a longer effective range.

You can also nix him in ammo choice. If he is using birdshot it will do nothing but piss someone off past a foot or two IT DOES NOT PENETRATE. Buck shot will do better (8-9 .30 calliber balls) but the veliocity will be much less for such a short gun. The shot shells are designed to burn in 18-24 inches of barrel and lots of the powder will just blow out the end and not make the projectile get upto normal speed. Plus the muzzle flash will be significant and could blind you like a flash bulb for a short time if it is dark. If you want to see how wimpy birdshot is for self defense see this link: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm There are lots of other real world tests on here as well.

And for a final nix if this is present day USA that this CoC took place in sawed off shotguns are illegal in most states. For shotguns under 26 inches over all and a barrel under 18 inches you have to have a federal tax stamp for $200. To get it you have to get fingerprinted, get the chief law enforcement officer to sign off on your paperwork, submit it to the ATF and wait 2-6 months for approval, and background check. Then you can purchase said shotgun which will run at least $600 not including the tax whereas a mossberg 500 with pistol grip 8 shot pump action with 18" barrel will run $250.

You can bypass this process by just taking a hacksaw and going to town. If you are caught with such a firearm you will have a nice stay at Club Fed simply for possesion. It is looked at as a criminals tool not a self defense item, let alone being a sub-par firearm. I don't recall what the exact penalties are but it is significant. More anti self defense states have even stiffer penalties, with minimum sentences. In NY for instance I think it is 5 years minimum state charges and then federal. This law was not enforced much until after the 60's, and rarely enforced before that. But is aggressively enforced now.

In regards to carrying in church, if I went to church I would (agnostic). There are a number of cases where a psycho went into a church and started mowing people down. There is a real good chance that most people are unarmed there so it is a target rich enviornment with little chance of opposition till the cops show up. You can trust the police, I trust my glock and the hours I put in at the range. So for the same reason I have life insurance I carry a sidearm for protection. If your morals take a differant path that is your choice you are welcome to it. But there are lots of fine people who carry firearms in church and you will never know it, these are moral upstanding people who have had background checks, and passed various test issued by the state to get a permit. If they carry you KNOW they are not a felon, have no abuse/battery charges, do not have a restraining order on them etc. They have to pass the background checks be finger printed and pass competency tests. What do you know about the other church goers?

So if you want to nix it you have clothing and concealment issues related to body size, climate and dress. Laws, and effectiveness of the firearm. I'll take my 10-13 rounds of .45 over 2 rounds of 00 buckshot any day. So there are ALOT of ways to nix this issue if you so desire. If you have firearm questions feel free to email or IM me and I can answer them

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

1. Assuming this is the Classic 1920's Call of Chthulu.

2. Your character has been through more than 1 session.


WHY THE HELL DID HE ONLY HAVE A SAWED OFF SHOTGUN?!?!?!!?!?!!?

You guys needed to be packing Dynamite & whatever WWI Surplus you could get your hands on.

You also need blasting caps.

Plus ropes & a gag for when the character whose sanity is going down faster than (Deleted)starts reading mumbo-jumbo from some book bound in Human Skin.

But in all seriousness.

If Indy there has had past experiences; paranoia might be justified.

For instance:

I once had a player of a Black Souls Singer going to a Church & he was loaded with more guns & ammo than a Ted Nugent at an All-You-Can-Shoot Buffet.

Of course it was 1928 & they were going to a Small Deep Woods Georgia "No Blacks after Sundown" Church.

The Guys in the White Outfits and the Cross-Shaped Bonfire might have influenced his desicion making.

PS. CoC. Guns only kill crazed Cultists. The really nasty stuff you need to run from.

 

[Wraith-Hunter]

If you want a quick link to check firearm laws in your state http://packing.org

 

[takasi]

Thanks for the replies!

Clarifications:
-1925 NY, NY. The church is St. Michael's or something like that.
-This was our first session.
-The DM told the player the sawed off shotgun was illegal.
-The sawed off shotgun was completely ineffective during that encounter.
-The only reason my lumberjack (Stan McKormick) had 100% sanity at the end of the session is because I intentionally took a low wisdom and no ranks in spot or listen.

To be fair, the guy who complained has played a lot of Cthulu and the guy with the shotgun has only played D&D. There was definately a difference in expectations on "realistic behavior". For example, another guy (who always plays a thief) playing a criminal snuck up to a window and saw the priest zombie eating the other priest. His first reaction? "So...uh...is there any loot in the room?" Again, many groans...

 

[Andor]

1925 NYC? There are no gun control laws in effect yet, but few people carry. The bulk of available guns will be revolvers, but obviously semi-autos are available. (It's called a 1911 for a reason.) The police carry whatever the buy, usually .32 or .38 revolvers. There are no standards, in fact being a police officer at the time was pretty much a purchasable position. A sawed off shotgun is pretty much a criminals weapon.