Pathfinder 1E Golarion = Greyhawk

[Sigurd]

If you found enough of what you liked in Greyhawk in Golarion that's great. I'm sure there was a will to create some of the same great features of other fantasy settings.

In some ways though I think Golarion is much more consciously designed than Greyhawk. The politics of each region and the layout seem more regional than narrative. It seems to me like there was a conscious recognition that a strong over-all plan would give them better results and make the world easier to use.

For me, the chaos of Greyhawk and the long history of wars and whatnot can make using the setting so tiring. What happened in this region when..... etc etc...

Golarion seems to have less burden and more variety. I really like the Chelaxians and the Andoreans and The Seekers. If you consider how Golarion supports Pathfinder Society play it seems like there was a conscious choice to make each background basically equal to the other in terms of history and interest.

I'm not sure if that's realistic but I sure can see its appeal for gaming.

Greyhawk, to me, has always felt like the inheritance of a great story. Golarion seems more like the world is yours from the beginning.

Thats just my .02

Sigurd


... course I still prefer home brew

 

[Voadam]

In some ways though I think Golarion is much more consciously designed than Greyhawk. The politics of each region and the layout seem more regional than narrative. It seems to me like there was a conscious recognition that a strong over-all plan would give them better results and make the world easier to use.

I'm not seeing what you are saying here.

What do you mean by regional and narrative and how they connect up to Golarion vs. Greyhawk?

Cheliax expanding to be a world class empire then having the fiend pacters take over and the empire contracts and lots of surrounding satellites are now either clients, break away independents, or break away enemies seems both regional and narrative in the same way that the similar sequence for the Great Kingdom in Oerth does to me.

Greyhawk's folios had a lot of regionalism I believe with bakluni arabs to the west, suel to the north and south, great kingdom and its former fiefdoms, wild west areas of wild coast and pomarj, the Iuz border with border kingdoms like the Shield Lands, multiple naval/pirate island kingdoms, etc.

 

[Wraith Form]

I'm being continually struck at the Greyhawk parralellisms.

facepalm

I...I never noticed that before.

As a Greyhawk fan......thanks.

 

[Voadam]

While Greyhawk certainly was a source of inspiration for us when we built Golarion, the fact that many of the world's literary inspirations are the same as those that inspired Gygax when he created Greyhawk (writers like Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Michael Moorcock, Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance, etc.) means that the end result of Golarion was more or less destined to have similarities to Greyhawk.

Speaking of Lieber I just read the Katapesh entry last night and the inscrutable, thin, tall robed alien trade leaders whose faces you never see jumped out at me.

 

[Sigurd]

I'm not seeing what you are saying here.

What do you mean by regional and narrative and how they connect up to Golarion vs. Greyhawk?

Greyhawk is the setting for a grand story that grew from a gaming table with a preference for particular places. There's lots and lots of stuff about Greyhawk city for example and less about many other regions. The narration of the Greyhawk adventures deepened the history in fewer areas to serve deep detailed regional campaigns.

So far Golarion feels more like a geographic survey. The organizing principle feels like it is a gazetteer with each region getting a measured more balanced amount of detail and then they move on to another region.


I think I prefer Golarion's approach because you have more light frameworks to build on rather than a detailed history that, for me, seems like too much work to reflect and extend.

Golarion feels a little like Harn where you have a little history for each area but the 'present day' events are reserved for the players to create.

Sigurd

 

[Voadam]

Greyhawk is the setting for a grand story that grew from a gaming table with a preference for particular places. There's lots and lots of stuff about Greyhawk city for example and less about many other regions. The narration of the Greyhawk adventures deepened the history in fewer areas to serve deep detailed regional campaigns.

So far Golarion feels more like a geographic survey. The organizing principle feels like it is a gazetteer with each region getting a measured more balanced amount of detail and then they move on to another region.


I think I prefer Golarion's approach because you have more light frameworks to build on rather than a detailed history that, for me, seems like too much work to reflect and extend.

Golarion feels a little like Harn where you have a little history for each area but the 'present day' events are reserved for the players to create.

Sigurd

I see the world of greyhawk more from the perspective of the original folio and 1e boxed set with a ton of lightly described countries. The wargaming roots seem strong as IIRC you can see generally the types of troops in each area (heavy cavalry versus light, heavy infantry vs. light) and a big political map with terrain features and different alliances and a little history of wars and population migrations and imperial disintegration and such. Greyhawk is just a small entry in there.

What I know of the original campaign is that there is a lot set in the mega dungeons of Castle Greyhawk and a little dealing with the Temple of Elemental Evil. There is the mad archmage and the high level thief mayor. Greyhawk city is basically Lankhmar which is fantasy New York. The old campaign has very little impact on stuff going on in the Great Kingdom or the Pomarj or the Sea Princes or such except for Iuz being freed in that campaign and being a ruler and bad guy in the adventuring setting.

The 2e greyhawk city boxed set has a ton of material as do the 1e Castle Greyhawk and the 2e Greyhawk Ruins ones but they have almost no connection to Gygax's actual campaign or story and just built off the fact that Greyhawk and its dungeons exist in the 1e materials. Same for the council of 8 and the famous mages and such.

 

[Voadam]

I thought the Caves of Chaos and Ustalov Keep on the Borderlands of the Worldwound were a nice little touch.