Golem Magic Immunity

[the Jester]

I believe the Sage or FAQ has stated that a golem's magic immunity is the same as unbeatable SR- does anyone know where this ruling is?

Thanks for the help!

 

[dcollins]

No, I don't believe the Sage has ever stated that.

That language is in the text to spell immunity (PHB p. 255), and restated in the rakshasa's spell immunity ability (MM p. 154). Many people have incorrectly interpreted it to apply to golem magic immunity, but I don't think there's ever been anything to support that.

 

[Kraedin]

Actually, the Sage did say that. It used to be in the WotC message board Sage archive until that thread got pruned.

Of course, that ruling leaves seems to overlook the golem's immunity to supernatural effects, which are not subject to spell resistance.

 

[LokiDR]

Spell Immunity and Magic Immunity are two different abilities that are not related except in effect. Spell Immunity is based on SR, Magic Immunity is not.

If you want to save yourself a lot of headaches, just use SR as a guide for how Magic Immunity is judged, and applie it to supernatural effects.

 

[Magic Rub]

Spell Immunity and Magic Immunity are two different abilities that are not related except in effect. Spell Immunity is based on SR, Magic Immunity is not.

If you want to save yourself a lot of headaches, just use SR as a guide for how Magic Immunity is judged, and applie it to supernatural effects.

Tee hee hee...

LOL (this again.)


the Jester, If you look back there is another thread called something like "Half-Golem Magic immunity" that I started.

wait a sec.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49379

Here you go. It may help?

...or not?

 

[LokiDR]

As I recall, that arguement just sort of rambled, alot. YMMV.

 

[the Jester]

Well, maybe I was wrong- I can't see to find any citation defining magic immunity. Hmmm.

Magic Rub, thanks for the pointer, but it seems like your thread was a bunch of debate too. Darn it!

 

[LokiDR]

That debated showed quite well that there is no offical position, but probably should be.

The question really needs to be "How do I want PCs to deal with this?" If the golem can do things like walk through a wall of force, you going a long way to making casters completely useless except for buffing party members.

 

[Artoomis]

Well, maybe I was wrong- I can't see to find any citation defining magic immunity. Hmmm.

Magic Rub, thanks for the pointer, but it seems like your thread was a bunch of debate too. Darn it!

Magic Immunity seems to be only defined on a per creature basis - there is no generic definition. The following is every instance of "Magic Immunity" in the SRD.

Magic Immunity (Ex): Golems completely resist most magical and supernatural effects, except where otherwise noted below.

Magic Immunity (Ex): Flesh golems are immune to all spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural effects, except as follows. Fire- and cold-based effects slow them (as the spell) for 2d6 rounds, with no saving throw. An electricity effect breaks any slow effect on the golem and cures 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage it would otherwise deal. For example, a flesh golem hit by a lightning bolt cast by a 5th-level wizard gains back 6 hit points if the damage total is 18. The golem rolls no saving throw against electricity effects.

Magic Immunity (Ex): Clay golems are immune to all spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural effects, except as follows. A move earth spell drives the golem back 120 feet and deals 3d12 points of damage to it. A disintegrate spell slows the golem (as the slow spell) for 1d6 rounds and deals 1d12 points of damage. An earthquake cast directly at a clay golem stops it from moving that round and deals 5d10 points of damage. The golem gets no saving throw against any of these effects.

Magic Immunity (Ex): A stone golem is immune to all spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural effects, except as follows. A transmute rock to mud spell slows it (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds, with no saving throw, while transmute mud to rock heals all of its lost hit points. A stone to flesh spell does not actually change the golem’s structure but makes it vulnerable to any normal attack for the following round (this does not include spells, except those that cause damage).

Magic Immunity (Ex): An iron golem is immune to all spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural effects, except as follows. An electricity effect slows it (as the slow spell) for 3 rounds, with no saving throw. A fire effect breaks any slow effect on the golem and cures 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage it would otherwise deal. For example, a iron golem hit by a fireball cast by a 5th-level wizard gains back 6 hit points if the damage total is 18. The golem rolls no saving throw against fire effects.

For comparison and clarity:

Spell Immunity (Su): Rakshasas ignore the effects of spells and spell-like abilities of 8th level or less, just as if the spellcaster had failed to overcome spell resistance.
Vulnerable to Blessed Crossbow Bolts (Ex): Any hit scored with a blessed crossbow bolt instantly slays a rakshasa.

Rakshasas have Spell Immunity, not Magic Immunity

From this, it seems clear that Magic Immunity is unique to Golems (and perhaps other non-MM monsters), and cannot be compared to other abilities. It is effective against both helpful and hurtful spells - at least as written in the Core Rules. Of course, golems are not free-willed, so this makes perfect sense.

As for Wall of Force, I guess you have to decide what "completely resist most magical...effects" and "immune to all spells..." means in that context. Those are the two phrases that would apply.

 

[LokiDR]

From this, it seems clear that Magic Immunity is unique to Golems (and perhaps other non-MM monsters), and cannot be compared to other abilities. It is effective against both helpful and hurtful spells - at least as written in the Core Rules. Of course, golems are not free-willed, so this makes perfect sense.

As for Wall of Force, I guess you have to decide what "completely resist most magical...effects" and "immune to all spells..." means in that context. Those are the two phrases that would apply.

By strict reading of the rules, yes.

However, D&D isn't that simple. Elves have immunity to sleep effects, but may voluntarily lower this immunity and be hit by a sleep spell. Rakshasas can not walk through a wall of force because wall of force does not allow for SR but are still immune to spells. Immunity in D&D rarely means immutable immunity.

We have already tread this ground though, and there doesn't seem to be much need to go over it again.