Golems v Spells

[Sekhmet]

Thank you for that authoritative ruling. I'll pass it along to my group.

Q; Where would I find the Sage's writings? Is there a link?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv06302008.zip
Here is the official download for the 3.5e FAQ/Sage's rulings. It is a PDF.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Some spells work on them, some don't, and there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule.

[...]

Anyone care to try and make sense out of this?

Yes, there is a hard and fast rule.

Immunity to Magic (Ex)

Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise noted.

Ferex ...

Immunity to Magic (Ex)

A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.

Look at the spell in question; does it allow SR? Then the golem is immune to it (unless specified in the particular golem's description as being different). If it doesn't allow SR (as most conjurations do not), then the golem isn't immune to it.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Chain golems are not immune to Rust Monsters. Just sayin.

(Is that starting to get old? 'cause once it does, you guys tell me. I just happen to think a pet Rust Monster really is the solution to just about everything.)

 

[Sekhmet]

Chain golems are not immune to Rust Monsters. Just sayin.

(Is that starting to get old? 'cause once it does, you guys tell me. I just happen to think a pet Rust Monster really is the solution to just about everything.)

Actually, Chain Golems are not affected by the Rust Monster's supernatural ability, as mentioned in their entry for magic immunity.

Magic Immunity (Ex): A chain golem is immune to
all spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural effects except as follows. An electricity effect slows it (as the slow spell) for 2 rounds (no saving throw). A fire effect breaks any slow effect on the chain golem and cures 1 point of damage for each 2 points of damage it would otherwise deal. A chain golem gets no saving throw against fire effects.

Iron Golems, however, are affected normally by rusting attacks such as Rusting Grasp or the touch attack of a Rust Monster.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Actually, Chain Golems are not affected by the Rust Monster's supernatural ability, as mentioned in their entry for magic immunity.


Iron Golems, however, are affected normally by rusting attacks such as Rusting Grasp or the touch attack of a Rust Monster.

Rust Monster :: d20srd.org
note, "Rust (Ex)
A rust monster that makes..." (Emphasis mine)
Special Abilities :: d20srd.org
"Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics..."

The Rust Monster's Rust ability is Extraordinary, not Supernatural. NO Magic, NO problem!!

Omnomnomnom...

 

[Sekhmet]

Rust Monster :: d20srd.org
note, "Rust (Ex)
A rust monster that makes..." (Emphasis mine)
Special Abilities :: d20srd.org
"Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics..."

The Rust Monster's Rust ability is Extraordinary, not Supernatural. NO Magic, NO problem!!

Omnomnomnom...

Ahhh, you are right. I'd remembered it as a Su.

I should note that the nature of Chain Golems would make them considerably more difficult than normal to rust through, as they're more a writhing mass of metal than one solid piece. Were I the DM of your world, I would most likely rule that the rusting effect could eat through one chain per touch, and not disintegrate the entire Golem in one go (just as the Sage has advised the Rust Monster to only damage a small portion of an Iron Golem with each strike) as to avoid a relatively easy encounter becoming trivial (in the case of the Chain Golem) or a moderately difficult encounter becoming trivial (in the case of the Iron Golem).

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Ahhh, you are right. I'd remembered it as a Su.

I should note that the nature of Chain Golems would make them considerably more difficult than normal to rust through, as they're more a writhing mass of metal than one solid piece. Were I the DM of your world, I would most likely rule that the rusting effect could eat through one chain per touch, and not disintegrate the entire Golem in one go (just as the Sage has advised the Rust Monster to only damage a small portion of an Iron Golem with each strike) as to avoid a relatively easy encounter becoming trivial (in the case of the Chain Golem) or a moderately difficult encounter becoming trivial (in the case of the Iron Golem).

"Rust (Ex)
A rust monster that makes a successful touch attack with its antennae causes the target metal to corrode, falling to pieces and becoming useless immediately. The touch can destroy up to a 10-foot cube of metal instantly. Magic armor and weapons, and other magic items made of metal, must succeed on a DC 17 Reflex save or be dissolved. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +4 racial bonus.
A metal weapon that deals damage to a rust monster corrodes immediately. Wooden, stone, and other nonmetallic weapons are unaffected. "
Note the use of the word "Immediately" twice and "Instantly" once. Note the mass of a "10-foot cube of metal". If the Sage wants to neuter the Rust Monster because it is so incredibly awesome, then I'd like to trigger the contingeny of @Dandu 's caster characters' teleportation in his direction.

 

[Greenfield]

Sadly, we didn't have a rust monster handy at the time. Would be interesting (and kinda broken) if they were on the list of things that could be summoned via Summon Monster. They aren't though.

And I suspect that DMs who allowed them as pets in the game probably wouldn't bother with Chain Golems or Iron Golems.

Sadly, running away from encounters has become our modus operandi of late. A lot of the party have multi-classed themselves into near uselessness.

Our current melee contingent is a Ranger 5/Druid3, a Barbarian3/Wizard5, and a Bard8.

Beyond that we have a Cleric5/Rogue3, a Wizard4/Cleric4, and an NPC Rogue6/Sorc1.

The Barb/Wiz was originally planning on going Rage Mage, but discovered that Rage Mage sucked, so now he's kinda stuck, neither fish nor foul. The Wiz/Cleric is played by a nice lady, but she's not exactly effective at anything. Her head isn't in the game at all.

So lately our winning tactic has been to Haste the party, then run like hell.

Well, for better or for worse, the Bard is back with the party (hence the Haste), so maybe we'll find our backbones again.

 

[Sekhmet]

"Rust (Ex)
A rust monster that makes a successful touch attack with its antennae causes the target metal to corrode, falling to pieces and becoming useless immediately. The touch can destroy up to a 10-foot cube of metal instantly. Magic armor and weapons, and other magic items made of metal, must succeed on a DC 17 Reflex save or be dissolved. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +4 racial bonus.
A metal weapon that deals damage to a rust monster corrodes immediately. Wooden, stone, and other nonmetallic weapons are unaffected. "
Note the use of the word "Immediately" twice and "Instantly" once. Note the mass of a "10-foot cube of metal". If the Sage wants to neuter the Rust Monster because it is so incredibly awesome, then I'd like to trigger the contingeny of @Dandu 's caster characters' teleportation in his direction.

I would argue that the Chain Golem is not one piece of metal, and at any given point only one piece is going to be striking or being struck by the Rust Monster, thus only one chain would be affected per strike.

 

[Greenfield]

One could argue that any chain is made of a lot of objects, interconnected, and that a Rust Monster could only take out one or two links at a time.

Of course, one could also argue that physical contact in any form is an illusion, since the closest any two items get to actual contact involves an interaction of electronic fields someplace outside the electron rings of the surface atoms.

I wouldn't expect a DM to swallow either of these arguments, non the "take out one chain" argument either, if it was a player trying to make it.