good Alter Self forms

[superkurt13]

I will be playing an 8th level wizard and I love the potential of the Alter Self spell. I see it as a way to gain flight and maybe a boost in AC. Could someone please recommend some good monsters to turn into? Mainly I would like a form that can fly, but I would also like something that has an AC bonus, maybe a size smaller than myself, and a humanoid form so I can use scrolls and wands.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Patlin]

There are lots of lists out there. I'd recomend a google search, it'll probably turn up at least three.

The only trick is that it varies by your type. Humanoid is easy to find, I've never seen a decent set of applications if you happen to be a construct...

 

[mvincent]

1) Troglodyte is usually considered the best (+6 natural armor).
2) Locathah is good for swimming (60', +3 natural armor)
3) Most campaigns do not include flying Humanoids, but Forgotten Realms has the Avarial race (fly 50' see Races of Faerun)

See this thread for more options.

 

[Chris Markham]

Gargoyle is humanoid and gives flight, along with a decent AC bonus Why does everyone forget the Gargoyle?

Sahaugin is better than Locathah for aquatic, and gives natural attack options.

You can even be large sized, as a Minotaur, with all that goes with the size increase (and the Tracking feat).

For me, "Alter Self" is like the Swiss Army knife of spells. Gives you different movement options (even fly), can allow you to breathe underwater, gives you AC bonuses, and the temporary use of Feats you don't have, as well as skill bonuses, all at the SAME time, and with a 2nd level spell.

 

[Celebrim]

3.5's version of 'Alter Self' is flat out broken, and one of the 3.5 era spells that give 3.5 such a bad name. I have never understood why they used 3.5 to errata a variety of spells that play in 3.0 had indicated were a bit too good (haste and harm, most notably) and yet without play testing the changes broke perfectly good and balanced 3.0 era spells like 'Alter Self' wide open.

 

[mvincent]

There are a few red flags on Chris Markham's post:
1) It's his first (and currently only) post
2) It resurrects a thread that was dead for (exactly) 11 years
3) It does not realize that "Monstrous Humanoid" and "Humanoid" are different types

 

[Dandu]

Are you insinuating that he may be a COMMUNIST?

 

[Greenfield]

Gargoyle is humanoid and gives flight, along with a decent AC bonus Why does everyone forget the Gargoyle?

Sahaugin is better than Locathah for aquatic, and gives natural attack options.

You can even be large sized, as a Minotaur, with all that goes with the size increase (and the Tracking feat).

For me, "Alter Self" is like the Swiss Army knife of spells. Gives you different movement options (even fly), can allow you to breathe underwater, gives you AC bonuses, and the temporary use of Feats you don't have, as well as skill bonuses, all at the SAME time, and with a 2nd level spell.

Actually Gargoyle is a Monstrous Humanoid, which isn't the same thing.

So, for that matter are Sahaugin and Minotaur.

If your character is Humanoid, they you have to choose a Humanoid form, 5 HD or less, as your target form.

If you take the Fey Blooded feat you can choose Fey forms like Pixie, which gives you the small size and a good fly speed.

 

[Greenfield]

If we're going to do a Res' on this thread, let's do it like we mean it. Let's discuss what's good and bad about the spell, and how to moderate it.

Using the spell to gain extra Natural AC seems like the most obvious use. Lizardfolk are Humanoid, with +5 Natural Armor, and Troglodyte has +6. Both good choices. You get to keep and use all your gear and gain lot's of AC bonus for the cost of a low level spell. Their natural AC even stacks with magic items that grant it, so it's a high quality bonus.

Having the ability to become amphibious (Aquatic Elves) isn't exactly game breaking. There are very few campaigns where it really comes into play. I don't see a problem with them, though others might.

The winged elves of Faerun were mentioned as a Humanoid that can fly. Some see this as a problem, since the Alter Self spell lasts longer than Fly, and is a level lower.

What are good ways to control this, organically? That is, how do we limit this within the game, rather than simply by DM fiat?

One way I've heard used is to ask, "Has your character ever heard of/seen such an Elf?". That, sadly, is solved with a Knowledge Nature check. The DC to know about a creature is based on their hit dice, so the Avariel aren't exactly hard to have heard of. Even applying a circumstance modifier for "Rare and reclusive" doesn't help all that much.

Another way is to simply say, "That's from another game world. we aren't using Faerun", though that borders on the hard "Because I said so" that I'd like to avoid.

The only Large Humanoid form I'm aware of in the MM series is one of the Naga, and I think that's an error.

Small Humanoids are easy to find (Halfling or Gnome), but I don't know of any other non-erroneous Large ones. Half-Ogre doesn't work, since the spell forbids changing to a templated creature.

Does anyone know of a Large Humanoid in the game?
Does anyone know of another winged/flying Humanoid in the game, other than the Avariel Elf?
Does anyone know of a Humanoid with useful racial Feats, such as Tracking?

What other useful forms are there?
What other troublesome forms (from the DM/game balance point of view) are there?

 

[ElectricDragon]

Other than werebear, bear or hybrid form or weretiger, tiger or hybrid form and a psionic duergar using expansion I don't know of any.

It seems, though I am unsure if it is stated anywhere, that Humanoids cut off at Medium size and Giant type takes over for larger sizes. I am sure there are exceptions, smaller giants and bigger humanoids.


Flying in game can be dealt with:
1. by applying minimum forward speed to remain flying and 25% damage rule for forcing winged creatures to land, higher % (50%?) = crash, don't forget maneuverability.
2. increasing the chances of flying/missile weapon encounters while aloft
3. requiring Dexterity checks for special maneuvers (flying through window or open door at speed, etc. failure means splat: Speed=falling distance)