D&D 5E good breakdown of multiclass vs single class for 5e?

ECMO3

Hero
4th is the worst time to MC.

When everyone else is getting game changing abilities at 5th (extra attack, 3rd level spells like Hypnotic pattern, Revivify, Fireball, Fly, Counterspell, Tiny Hut, Spirit Guardians, Bardic inspiration on a short rest, Stunning Fist etc) you're left sucking it up for a level till 6th (and it takes a looong time to get to 6th).

5th level is when gameplay radically changes. Now you can fly, death is but an inconvenience, martials damage output literally doubles (at will), and classes exponentially increase in power.

You're much better off doing it after 5th level.
I don't agree and I don't find that all to be exactly true when you add in the first level abilities you get. Martial attacks with a 5th-level single class are very rarely twice what a 4/1 character is and sometimes it is not any higher at all. Further because your proficiencies and your cantrips scale with character levels, you get buffs on those whether you multiclass or not.

For example a 5th level Fighter Eldritch Knight using extra attack will generally do LESS damage than a 4th level EK/1st level Rogue using the same finnesse weapon and a blade cantrip: sneak+cantrip+weapon+dex/strenght+secondary damage >2xweapon+2xdex/strength. Even if you assume no secondary damage at all the multiclass does more damage than extra attack with a 16 ability and is less than a half point less with an 18 ability.

If he is not an EK, sure he will do more damage with extra attack but it is not twice as much when he is picking up sneak attack as a Rogue. And to counter the marginal difference in damage, he is getting a skill, expertise in 2 skills and thieves tools.

If the same fighter multiclasses to Wizard again he can take a cantrip that keeps him close in melee to the 5th level fighter (ahead if he gets secondary damage) while picking up awesome defensive spells like absorb elements and shield. If he is a strength guy he can also pick up a ranged cantrip that will substantially increase his effectiveness in ranged attacks all in exchange for a very small increase in melee damage.

Similarly the blaster warlock who multiclasses to something after 4th level will still get 2 eldritch blasts because character level is 5th. So he loses nothing in at will damage. He loses 3rd level spells known, but he still has the same 2 spell slots and if he is a blaster one of them is probably going to stay on hex anyway. If he is a blade pact and not a blaster he gives up multiattack but keeps another evocation in exchange and still gets the 5th level damage boosts noted previously with the blade cantrips keeping him pretty close. He can go sorcerer or bard and get a bunch more cantrips, spells known as well as 2 more slots a day. With sorcerer he can get subclass abilities too.

A 4th level Rogue who multiclasses gives up uncanny dodge and 1d6 sneak attack. If he goes to fighter he can now use a heavy crossbow (1 more point of damage) and get a +2 on attack rolls with it. Alternatively with a fighter he can get a bonus to AC, or get a +2 damage through dueling or get some battlemaster dice, or blind fighting ...... He also gets 2nd wind and a bunch of weapon proficiencies and can wear a breast plate (or half plate if he can dela with the stealth disadvantage).

If the 4th level Rogue multiclasses to wizard he can pick up the blade cantrips and actually do more damage than the extra 1d6 SA he would get (unless he was an AT) plus get reaction options that are better than uncanny dodge.

Of course specifics matter and you need consider the character and what you are trying to do. What I wrote above are solid examples I think where those builds do not lose out at 5th level by multiclassing. There are some builds it is a really bad idea not to take 5th level (like a 4th level Ranger most of the time), but generally I find 4th level to be a good place to multiclass if your intent is a multiclass character and I have done it a lot. A final caveat - you could argue it is not ever good to multiclass out of wizard at 4th level, but that has more to do with the power of the wizard class than it does the level and that argument, while valid, can be applied at any level for many Wizard builds.
 
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In 5e you really have to actively try to shoot yourself im the foot to make a bad character. If you make halfway sensible choices, your character is fine. I really thought about my multiclass character a lot and I did calculate soo many variants and in the end just went with what was appropriate for the story, not making optimized choices and combining different abilities the damage output and versatility is great. The only thing I lost are high level spells that can solve any problems. But since my character was never intended to use high level spells that is totally ok (3rd level spells. 5th level slots. And since many utility spells at level 2 can be cast on slot - 1 allies casting spells like a half caster but with increased power is a huge boon.)
 

BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
One major point I find gets overlooked a lot in multiclassing discussions is this: What level do you realistically see your character reaching before the game ends? Talks about capstones and 9th level spells are ultimately irrelevant if you don't expect to get into tier 4 adventures.
Also, what level are you starting at? Some multiclass combos take a few levels to come online, and are much more viable if you're starting at levels 3-5.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Here is from the PHB 1E:
Cleric: Dwarf 8, Elf 7, Gnome 7, half-elf 5, half orc 4
Druid: Halfling 6
Fighter: Dwarf 9, Elf 7, Gnome 6, Half Elf 8, Halfling 6, Half Orc 10
Ranger: Half Elf 8
Magic-User: Elf 11, Half Elf 8
Illusionist: Gnome 7
Thief: Halforc 8, unlimited for everyone else
Assassin: Dwarf 9, Elf 10, Gnome 8, half elf 11, Half Orc unlimited.

A few of those races got boosts in unearthed arcana, but none were up to 15 except Thieves and half-orc assasins
FOUR! Man who would even bother to multiclass Cleric to 4th level? I knew 2e was more generous than 1e, but holy carp, that's rough.
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
One major point I find gets overlooked a lot in multiclassing discussions is this: What level do you realistically see your character reaching before the game ends? Talks about capstones and 9th level spells are ultimately irrelevant if you don't expect to get into tier 4 adventures.
In the case of sorcerer dipping into warlock, you get the capstone many levels early.
 

BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
In the case of sorcerer dipping into warlock, you get the capstone many levels early.
I've played every class in 5E at this point, and the only one I was outright disappointed by was the sorcerer. Had a bard in the group that could literally do everything I could and more, frequently better to boot.
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I've played every class in 5E at this point, and the only one I was outright disappointed by was the sorcerer. Had a bard in the group that could literally do everything I could and more, frequently better to boot.
The key is to get extra spells known and going off the sorcerer list. Divine Soul is a fountain of rare/impossible combos. Just cast silence, shutting down most casters, and proceed to cast with impunity using subtle spell.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Yeah some of the Sorcerer subclasses work out fine. Others make you wonder why you didn't play a Wizard. Even with newer subclasses granting bonus spells known, the Wizard really stole the Sorcerer's thunder in 5e, with their ability to have a wider array of spells available to cast at a given moment.

Metamagic is nice, but you'll run out of Sorcery points fast, while the Wizard has some really stellar subclasses to work with. Even the less spicy ones can be pretty cool (I really like the versatility of Transmutation, and being able to grant yourself a Save proficiency of your choice is feels underrated- but that's just because the other options are just that good).
 

BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
Sorcerer was one of the first classes I tried playing, so there weren't many subclass options available. Warlock honestly makes a better sorcerer than the sorcerer does, you just need to reflavour the pacts as bloodlines and you have a class that feels more "inherently magical" than the sorcerer does.

But that's getting severely off-topic. Charisma-caster multiclassing is definitely the easiest way to go this edition, since you have a lot of options to choose from (sorcerer, paladin, warlock and bard). Martial multiclassing is significantly less viable, since Extra Attack explicitly doesn't stack, making those essentially dead levels instead of the massive power increase they're meant to be at that level.
 

ECMO3

Hero
I am actually thinking of playing a triple class build in a 1-20 game I will be playing soon. Start as Stout Halfling Shadow Sorcerer (S8/D17/C12/I8/W16/CH13), multiclass at level 2 to fighter (unarmed Fighting), multiclass at level 3 to Monk. Take Monk to level 8 (S1/F1/M6). Then go Fighter Eldritch Knight 6, finally sorcerer 4, Monk 8, Fighter 8

Feats:
level 6: second chance (D18)
Level 11: Shadow Touched with Cause Fear (W17)
Level 13: W+1 (18)/Ch+1(14)
Level 16: D20
Level 18: W20

So in the end it is Shadow Sorcerer 4/Eldritch Knight 8/Shadow Monk 8.

The idea is basically a Shadow Monk with the multiclasses shoring up some deficiencies - the Sorcerer and later EK give some defensive spell options to boost defense, the fighter gives better proficiencies for Monk weapons and better unarmed damage. Monk gives stunning strike, shadow step, the shadow spell options and the Monk movement. Halfling gives second chance in a half feat.

Not sure how well it will play though.
 

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