Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos

[silentspace]

I was just wondering, in your campaigns, how would you define the following?

Theft - Armed Robbery
Theft - Unarmed Robbery
Theft - Shoplifting
Murder – 1st degree
Murder – 2nd degree
Murder – self-defense
Murder – the church said I should do it
Murder – my dog said I should do it
Manslaughter
Slavery – Actively enslaving others
Slavery – Purchasing slaves
Slavery – Owning slaves (passed down from previous generations, or as a gift)
Slavery - Owning good, intelligent creatures (e.g. giant eagles)
Rioting
Trespassing
Assault and Battery (lethal)
Assault and Battery (subdual)
Rape
Destruction of Property – Arson
Destruction of Property – Graffiti
Bribery
Embezzlement – from the rich
Embezzlement – from the government
Extortion – for ‘protection’
Collecting tribute from peasants – for ‘protection’
Blackmail
Kidnapping – for profit
Kidnapping – for press gangs
Kidnapping - for slavery
Fraud – Selling stolen property
Fraud – Selling non-existent items
Fraud – Inflating the value of items
Grave Robbery – stealing valuables
Grave Robbery – stealing bodies
Creating Undead – as servants
Creating Undead – as guards
Creating Undead – as soldiers

Is this too long a list?

 

[silentspace]

Judging by how characters are played in games I've seen, these are the categories I came up with:

Good
Murder – 1st degree [carefully planned killing of suspect]
Murder – 2nd degree [desire to kill suspect, but not planned]
Murder – the church said I should do it [paladins]
Murder – self-defense [seldom are foes subdued]
Manslaughter [hey, accidents happen]
Slavery - Owning good, intelligent creatures (eg giant eagles) [I need a mount, don't I?]
Rioting [causing a diversion]
Trespassing [infiltrating the suspected bad guy's place]
Assault and Battery (lethal) [self explanatory, often leads to murder]
Assault and Battery (subdual) [self explanatory]
Destruction of Property – Arson [burning down the suspect's house]
Destruction of Property – Graffiti [leaving messages for the suspect]
Bribery [information-gathering]
Embezzlement – from the rich [robin hood]
Embezzlement – from the government [robin hood, again]
Collecting tribute from peasants – for ‘protection’ [some call them taxes]
Kidnapping – for press gangs [even good kingdoms use the draft]
Grave Robbery – stealing valuables [self explanatory]

Neutral
Theft - Armed Robbery [theft, unlike murder, is generally not considered good ]
Theft - Unarmed Robbery
Theft - Shoplifting
Extortion – for ‘protection’
Murder – my dog said I should do it [insanity]
Slavery – Purchasing slaves
Slavery – Owning slaves (passed down from previous generations, or as a gift)
Blackmail
Kidnapping – for profit
Kidnapping - for slavery [profit motive]
Fraud – Selling stolen property
Fraud – Selling non-existent items
Fraud – Inflating the value of items
Grave Robbery – stealing bodies
Creating Undead – as servants
Creating Undead – as guards
Creating Undead – as soldiers

Evil
Slavery – Actively enslaving others
Rape

Edit: Added notes

 

[silentspace]

I must be in a wierd mood today

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Theft - Armed Robbery
Theft - Unarmed Robbery
-- Chaotic. Leans evil depending on level of violence and targets chosen.

Theft - Shoplifting
-- Chaotic unless neccessary.

Murder – 1st degree
-- Depends on motive. Plotting overthrow of evil tyrant? Good, slightly Chaotic. Avenging a petty slight? Strongly Chaotic and Evil.

Murder – 2nd degree
-- Probably Chaotic, but circumstances could dictate otherwise.

Murder – self-defense
-- Strictly neutral. No moral or ethical component here.

Murder – the church said I should do it
-- Lawful. Good or Evil based on victim and orientation of church.

Murder – my dog said I should do it
-- Depends on why you're listening to the dog. Insanity is separate from moral definitions. If dog is celestial advisor, or Awakened, or any number of other things, it depends on the victim and the moral orientation of your dog.

Manslaughter
-- Since this is usually in reference to accidents, it's morally neutral. Slightly Chaotic and may tend toward Evil depending on the level of negligence involved in the accident.

Slavery – Actively enslaving others
-- Evil.

Slavery – Purchasing slaves
-- Morally neutral. There's a lot of reasons to buy slaves.

Slavery – Owning slaves (passed down from previous generations, or as a gift)
Slavery - Owning good, intelligent creatures (e.g. giant eagles)
-- Lawful and Evil.

Rioting
-- Chaotic.

Trespassing
-- Slightly Chaotic unless justified.

Assault and Battery (lethal)
-- Probably Chaotic, but depends on victim and circumstances.

Assault and Battery (subdual)
-- Depends on circumstances.

Rape
-- Evil.

Destruction of Property – Arson
-- Chaotic. Possibly Evil depending on what you're burning. Circumstances could justify this.

Destruction of Property – Graffiti
-- Chaotic.

Bribery
-- Morally neutral. This ranges from necessary to abominable, and some Lawful societies require bribes.

Embezzlement – from the rich
-- Chaotic. Possibly Evil, depending on whether or not betrayal is involved.

Embezzlement – from the government
-- Chaotic.

Extortion – for ‘protection’
-- Evil. Law/Chaos depends on government and crime.

Collecting tribute from peasants – for ‘protection’
-- Neutral to Evil. Depends on amount collected and how much protection is actually provided.

Blackmail
-- Probably Evil, but circumstances can make it justified... or even Good.

Kidnapping – for profit
-- Evil. Law/Chaos depends on society.

Kidnapping – for press gangs
-- Lawful and Evil.

Fraud – Selling stolen property
Fraud – Selling non-existent items
Fraud – Inflating the value of items
-- Chaotic. Possibly Evil.

Grave Robbery – stealing valuables
Grave Robbery – stealing bodies
-- Morally neutral.

Creating Undead – as servants
Creating Undead – as guards
Creating Undead – as soldiers
-- Morally neutral.

 

[silentspace]

Wow. Great, well-thought out response!

 

[Hecateus]

Generally Evil is that which is harmful, and Good is that which is beneficial. There can be no truly standard system of figuring out how to objectively judge the morality of an act because the effects of an act are always relative to each involved...and no I am not argueing moral relativism. (where different moral systems are considered of equal value despite being different)

Hoever, this site might help with an article on how to decide a punishment:
http://www.roleplayingtips.com/issue41.asp

 

[Umbran]

Judging by how characters are played in games I've seen, these are the categories I came up with:

Well, there are two things to consider -

First, D&D characters live in a much diffierent world. Even over real-world history, the definition of "murder" has changed over time. Reasonable to assume then that it'd be differnet in the game world, too.

Second, actions alone don't determine alignment. Motivations and thoughts also factor into the balance. Killing a sentient creature for fun and profit is one thing. Killing it because there's significant evidence that it will wreak blood and havoc on the local peasants is another.

 

[Felix]

Please note that most of these things would have the Chaotic descriptor, because Breaking the Law is one expression of Chaos.

Theft - Armed Robbery.....................E, moderate
Theft - Unarmed Robbery..................E, very slight
Theft - Shoplifting............................E, very slight

Note that murder is seperate from Assassination. Since you didn't ask, I won't comment on the morality of a government sanctioned hit.
Murder – 1st degree.......................... depends upon motivation, ie, "did they have it comin?"
Murder – 2nd degree.......................... depends upon morality of act you were doing. Likely moderate Evil
Murder – self-defense......................... morally neutral
Murder – the church said I should do it..L, morality depends upon church
Murder – my dog said I should do it.......C, morality depends upon breed of dog.
Manslaughter..................................... morally neutral

Slavery – Actively enslaving others..........E, moderate to heavy
Slavery – Purchasing slaves.....................E, moderate
Slavery – Owning slaves (passed down from previous generations, or as a gift)........E, slight
Slavery - Owning good, intelligent creatures (e.g. giant eagles).....E, slight (as in having been passed down)

Rioting................................. mindless, petty, and likely Evil
Trespassing...........................E, very slight

A&B for A&B's sake is evil. If you want to steal or kidnap, that is under their headings.
Assault and Battery (lethal)
Assault and Battery (subdual)

Rape.........................................E

Destruction of Property – Arson.......E, slight to moderate
Destruction of Property – Graffiti.......E, slight

Bribery..............................................E, petty
Embezzlement – from the rich................E, slight
Embezzlement – from the government......E, slight
Extortion – for ‘protection’.....................E, moderate
Collecting tribute from peasants – for ‘protection’ E, moderate -- Does the condition of the victim matter? Just because someone is rich makes them an OK target to steal from?
Blackmail..............................................E, slight to moderate

Kidnapping – for profit............................E, moderate
Kidnapping – for press gangs...................E, moderate
Kidnapping - for slavery...........................E, moderate

Fraud – Selling stolen property...................E, slight-- most of the evil is in having stolen it
Fraud – Selling non-existent items...............E, slight to moderate
Fraud – Inflating the value of items..............N, caveat emptor

Grave Robbery – stealing valuables.............E, very slight
Grave Robbery – stealing bodies.................E, slight to moderate

Creating Undead – as servants....................\
Creating Undead – as guards........................>E, it ain't NATURAL!
Creating Undead – as soldiers....................../

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Collecting tribute from peasants – for ‘protection’ E, moderate -- Does the condition of the victim matter? Just because someone is rich makes them an OK target to steal from?

It's the difference between Chaotic and being Chaotic and Evil.

Creating Undead – as servants....................\
Creating Undead – as guards........................>E, it ain't NATURAL!
Creating Undead – as soldiers....................../

Neither is agriculture.