Grading At-Will Powers

[Sarck]

Where the hell are you people getting this at-will "Illusionary Foes" for Wizards? I'm looking through my PHB, the DND Insider Database, everything, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Mengu]

Where the hell are you people getting this at-will "Illusionary Foes" for Wizards? I'm looking through my PHB, the DND Insider Database, everything, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drcact/20080616

 

[Sarck]

Ah, thanks. I was getting really frustrated, thinking there was an error in my PHB or something.

 

[-Avalon-]

Thunderwave & Scorching Burst

I love these two abilities, and if played human would have picked cloud of daggers as a third most likely...

Scorching burst is a much better minion killer in the long run because even at high levels it still does the pre-req of 1 damage(or more) on a hit, and targets 9 squares (cloud only gets 1?) Plus as a fire base and playing a tiefling, the ability to "once per encounter" add a push 1 to the ability is pretty nice (like throwing a grenade lol)

Thunderwave is EXCELLENT! Just in the first module H1:KotS... If you are not afraid of getting in the mix a lil (yes I know, low HP), then you can push mobs into position for fighters to do passing attacks quite easily, or rangers to do hit n run's more effectively, etc...

Plus, if traps are in the area, and you happen to notice them (through your skill or a friend's) then pushing enemies into those traps is mucho gratifying...

Take for instance, first room of the Keep, the 10x10 pit in middle, once triggered, has a rat swarm in the bottom. If you maneuver right (part of playing a wizard), you can toss goblins into the pit to be eaten by the rats. Game mechanics says this won't happen, but... any DM that uses an ounce of logic would read the description and know the rats will devour ANYTHING that gets near them...

"...simply overwhelming anything that looks like it might make a meal."

 

[Eric888]

Holy strike is a lot better than people realize. Adding wisdom to damage is not a small increase for many paladin builds. On top of that, it does radiant damage. That is an extra 5-10 against almost any undead hit, and there are a lot of those, to say the least of magic items and feats that boost radiant attacks.

And commander’s strike seems really powerful too, assuming that the melee range applies to the character making the basic attack and not warlord, which the power isn’t really clear on.

 

[Andor]

WinterTouch is an entire feat whose purpose is to put cold spells on par with non-cold spells with regard to "to hit", but only if the Wizard takes the Lasting Frost feat as well. Without Lasting Frost, WinterTouch totally sucks. WinterTouch is also worthless for the first cold attack against each creature. It doesn't kick in until attack #2.

So sure. Lasting Frost will give +5 damage. Compared to +Wis to damage hit or miss for 10 character levels of Cloud of Daggers. Two feats, just to get Ray of Frost on par with Cloud of Daggers.

That sounds like a lot of feats just to get in the same ballpark.

Sure, but consider that a lot of Rogues will also be using those feats with frost weapons. There is very little reason not to after all. So your Ray of Frost can also set up the Rogue and vice versa increasing party synergy.

You shouldn't consider only the character in a vacuum, or Commander's Strike becomes really stupid.

BTW anybody notice that Commander's strike has no range limit? You could set up a squad of cheerleaders on a distant hilltop to get many, many extra attacks around. In theory.

Never mind, I forgot Melee is a range class. Kinda. Wow that's really weird actually. If I'm reading it right you have to be in melee range of the creature you want your buddy to hit, but range to your buddy is immaterial as long as he can reach the creature with a basic melee attack.

- I can kinda see it, but I would have named the power 'Create Opening' not 'Commander's Strike'. That sounds like something you use after benefit negotiations break down.

 

[zero skill LPB]

I dunno. I think Sacred Flame kinda trumps everything else.

Wisdom based for Wisdom primary class = yay
Versus Reflex = yay
temporary hit points are nice, sure, but allowing a save? = WOO!

The potential to remove effects from allies before they suffer them... NICE.

 

[keterys]

And very few other attack powers will let you 'save or die' your team mates (after a beholder death ray or whatever)

Is Holy Strike notably better than Sly Flourish? Trickster Rogues will have at least as good Cha as the pally's Wis, so radiant (resistable to some, extra damage to lots) vs. "untyped" damage, and marked target only (only a minor restriction, but one)

Least, that's why I scored them equally.

 

[KarinsDad]

Sure, but consider that a lot of Rogues will also be using those feats with frost weapons. There is very little reason not to after all. So your Ray of Frost can also set up the Rogue and vice versa increasing party synergy.

You shouldn't consider only the character in a vacuum, or Commander's Strike becomes really stupid.

Sure, Rogues can do that. IF you have a Rogue in your party. IF your Rogue (or anyone else) has a Frost Weapon. Not all DMs hand out every magical item that the players want, especially ones which might be overly potent in certain synergy combinations like you mention.

The point is that it took two feats to make Ray of Frost no longer suboptimal. And in the scenario you suggest, it is most like that the Rogue will take those feats as well, just so that he does not have to depend on the Wizard.

Cloud of Daggers can prevent flank. You shouldn't consider only the character in a vacuum.

Note: Cloud of Daggers for an Orb user can be put into three squares at the same time (one extended one in round one, one standard action on round two, one action point on round two) which can really screw up enemy tactics and help party tactics. Sure, it doesn't last long, but it can really screw up a Paladin marked opponent (maybe even a minion) if he has to walk into a CoD in order to attack the Paladin (or take damage from the mark). Ditto for Fighter marked synergy with CoD. If the marked opponent moves out of the CoD, the Fighter gets to attack.

Lots of synergies with Cloud of Daggers. Like you said, you shouldn't consider only the character in a vacuum.

 

[Goumindong]

A few comments, here.

One is that people really should note what their assumptions are regarding the play conditions. This does affect certain powers, and especially the arguments for or against them.

Take, e.g., the argument of MM vs. other Wizard At-Wills. Some people say that the longer range is a reason to favor it. However, the question is whether that longer range actually comes into play, and this is a question of the game you're in, not the power itself. As for myself, I believe that in the first game I ran, the ranges never really got above 10 (I'm working on this). Just one example of how other factors can change the assessment of a power.

The other advantage is that MM can be used with the plethora of Warlord Abilities that grant ranged basic attacks. Its a little weak compared to the rest when not figuring that, but it allows you to participate when the Warlord coordinates fire and other such stuff.

Which, especially in later levels when you are going to be using your at wills less and less will be very strong. Especially combined with Solid Sound. So when the Warlord tosses out his "you can make a ranged basic attack" you get +2 bonus to any defense(that you have not used solid sound for to get a bonus already, though if the power is a different than one you used already the DM might rule it a "different source), and get to make an attack when you would not have otherwise.

A wizard with a melee weapon and implement in each hand(or a staff) can participate fully with warlord abilities that grant extra attacks without problem.

This makes the power a lot stronger(and makes staff wizards a lot stronger) when used with a warlord.

WinterTouch is an entire feat whose purpose is to put cold spells on par with non-cold spells with regard to "to hit", but only if the Wizard takes the Lasting Frost feat as well.

Unless your entire party takes Lasting Frost and WinterTouch and stocks up on cold weapons. The cold keyword moves over to their powers and they make enemies vulnerable when they hit[for another +5 damage and combat advantage, which can be pretty big], so now your rogue doesn't have to flank to gain combat advantage, your ranger gets +5 damage and +2 attack on all his multiple iterative attacks, your fighter hits and interrupts movement easier.

And to top if off, you've got a few area cold spells that hit against reflex(at least Icy Terrain, i didn't look much at the later ones).

Taken alone it doesn't seem all that great, but taken as a whole it can be pretty nasty.

There is also a helmet that have the effect that every time you grant someone a basic attack, that person gets a standard action instead. That can be really nice with Commander's strike.

Its only once a day so you are more likely to use it when you grant attacks from dailies that give multiple friendlies attacks as well.

Where the hell are you people getting this at-will "Illusionary Foes" for Wizards? I'm looking through my PHB, the DND Insider Database, everything, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

Newest Dragon issue "Class Act: Wizards"

Heh, yes. I figured that was covered by the comments about autokilling minions and pushing people into/through it for extra damage.

Curious, I can't check right now - if you hit a swarm with this, do you trip the vulnerable for the initial damage and for the Effect?

Yes, you do trip the vulnerability for the initial damage and the effect. The efect is a Zone effect and the initial damage is an AoE "Everyone in the square" not a single target effect. So you ought to trip on both.