Grappling and Ranged Sneak Attack

[Celtic_Bear]

Here is a real situation from last night's Kalamar game:

Our front rank Fighter (me) gets grappled by a Leech Monster (yes, I have Close Quarters Combat, but of course I rolled a 1 to hit on my AOO). Our Rogue, who is standing less than 30' away then fires an arrow at said Leechy Beastie. Murphy's Law kicks in and (of course) the arrow hits me after we make the 50/50 check as perscribed by the rules covering firing at grappled combatants.

Now, the $10,000.00 question:

Does the thief have to roll sneak attack damage as well as weapon damage?

(We argued about it for about 10 minutes and decided to take 1/2 sneak attack damage and to take this question to our favorite boards and get responces there)

 

[Black Knight Irios]

In a grapple you lose your DEX-Bonus to AC against all Attacks from outside the grapple. Since the rogue wasn't grappling at all, he would apply his complete Sneak Attack Damage aganist you.
Bad for you, gettin' beaten up by your allies sucks.

SRD 3.5
No Dexterity Bonus: You lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one) against opponents you aren’t grappling. (You can still use it against opponents you are grappling.)

 

[James McMurray]

When a foe loses his dexterity modifier a rogue can snealk attack him. He isn't forced to use his class ability.

Also, considering that a sneak attack is a well-aimed strike, I'd say it was impossible to do it on an unintentional attack. You can't really aim for a guy's kidney when you're trying to hit the guy he's wrestling with.

 

[Len]

I'd say that you have to decide that you're sneak attacking before you attack, so you can't retroactively say "In that case no sneak attack."

However the kidney comment is right on. It might not be in the rules, but you shouldn't get sneak damage on someone you hit by mistake.

Also, I didn't know that the kidney is the vital organ that my character is always aiming for. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Darklone]

Kalamar, yihaa

By the rules, it would be a sneak attack. By logic, it doesn't make sense that you hit someone harder by hitting a vital organ when you didn't want to hit him.

Ask your DM to interpret the "miss chance" due to grappling as a kind of concealment, ergo no sneak attack. It does make sense.

 

[Azazu]

I am the DM in the game in question. My point in the arguement was that the rogue shot into this mass of flesh and leeches looking to score a hit on the enemy. Now by the rules the chance to hit the enemy or your ally was 50/50. So we rolled the dice and it turned out to be in the foes fovor. Well, that rogue was sure trying sneak attack it. Of course in this situation the monster has improved grab and therefore does not lose his dex bonus and therefore was not subject to sneak attack damage anyway. The rogue's ally was. He lost his dex bonus while being grappled.

So the question becomes, does a rogue lose his ability to sneak attack if there is a miss chance??? We know that he loses it when there is concealment, but what about a miss chance?

thanks

 

[Thanee]

I'd probably rule this the same as concealment.

Why didn't he just get closer, AFAIK, you don't have the miss chance if you are adjacent.

Hmm... can't find the rules for shooting into grapple in the PHB, what page are they?

Bye
Thanee

 

[ConspiracyAngel]

Sneak Attack

PHB v3.5 (page 50 second column top) specifically states that the Rogue must be able to see the target and be able to pick out a vital spot. So, if the Rogue stated that she was trying to sneak attack the monster, then the vital spot that she had in mind was targeted toward the monster. NOW if she missed the monster, then the attack would not just automatically find the vitals of another creature.

I say if Rogue misses Sneak Attack target and hits another target in process that it turns into a plain attack.

 

[Darklone]

Didn't find the rules for shooting into a grapple either.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Didn't find the rules for shooting into a grapple either.

It's a footnote to the Table of Combat Modifiers.

-Hyp.