Grasping Shadows... too powerful?

[Caliban]

Also remember that Prone and Difficult Terrain interact in a very nice way. If you're prone, you have to spend an action to stand. If you've already spent your move action to stand, and nobody is within melee reach, the only way you can attack is to use a ranged attack, or to charge. You can't charge across difficult terrain. This spell probably laid down difficult terrain in between you and your intended charge target.

So aimed right, it can deny your opponents a turn.

You can charge across difficult terrain in 4e. It just costs extra movement as normal. (This is mentioned in the charge action in the PHB.)

 

[Syrsuro]

Go here: Dragon #368 Table of Contents

and then click on the picture where it says "Download Complete Issue Now!"

Except, of course, you want issue 364, not 368.

Dragon #364 Table of Contents

But you need to download the complete issue as the changes are not in the individual article linked on that page.

Carl

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Except, of course, you want issue 364, not 368.

Dragon #364 Table of Contents

But you need to download the complete issue as the changes are not in the individual article linked on that page.

Carl

Thanks! I didn't realize that they don't update the individual articles, that's good to know. I'll have to show this to our Wizard. He was thinking of using some of the spells listed but thought that many of them - in particular, Grasping Shadows - were too powerful. Now that they've corrected some of that, perhaps he'll be able to use some of them.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Prone vs 1d8 damage is not a clear cut win for the damage. Remember that you're effectively giving the entire party a +2 to hit in the right conditions, and you might be enabling sneak attacks too.

 

[Rafe]

Prone vs 1d8 damage is not a clear cut win for the damage. Remember that you're effectively giving the entire party a +2 to hit in the right conditions, and you might be enabling sneak attacks too.

Very true. For me, though, I like the damage vs creating difficult terrain and causing knock down on initial attack.

The other PCs in the party are: Human Warlord, Human Ranger (ranged), Human Wizard (myself), Halfling Rogue and Dragonborn Fighter. So the damage isn't really needed, but it suits the character. Also, I simply felt that Grasping Shadows is a better spell for me, roleplaying-wise (in terms of the mechanics of the spell and its effects).

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Prone vs 1d8 damage is not a clear cut win for the damage. Remember that you're effectively giving the entire party a +2 to hit in the right conditions, and you might be enabling sneak attacks too.

Oh, it's not an auto-win of course, just another option. That's what he was worried about before, was that with a Brust 2 (that's 5x5) power doing 2d8 at 1st level, why take anything else? With it being properly scaled now, it's more a matter of personal choice.

In our party, for example, the Rogue usually doesn't engage the guys in the Icy Terrain area. We use it more as a way to lock down a group for a round, and keep them out of combat. The Rogue will usually stick by me or another front-liner and try to flank to get CA. This way, we can focus on the guys hitting us now, and worry about the guys in the Icy Terrain in two turns when they're actually able to move around again.

Of course, other parties might just throw Icy Terrain right in front of the front line, and have a Rogue there using an Action point to get two sneak attacks in, along with some beat downs from the Fighter. In that case, Icy Terrain is the better power for that party.

 

[deleteme123456]

Oh, it's not an auto-win of course, just another option. That's what he was worried about before, was that with a Brust 2 (that's 5x5) power doing 2d8 at 1st level, why take anything else? With it being properly scaled now, it's more a matter of personal choice.

In our party, for example, the Rogue usually doesn't engage the guys in the Icy Terrain area. We use it more as a way to lock down a group for a round, and keep them out of combat. The Rogue will usually stick by me or another front-liner and try to flank to get CA. This way, we can focus on the guys hitting us now, and worry about the guys in the Icy Terrain in two turns when they're actually able to move around again.

Of course, other parties might just throw Icy Terrain right in front of the front line, and have a Rogue there using an Action point to get two sneak attacks in, along with some beat downs from the Fighter. In that case, Icy Terrain is the better power for that party.

A rogue could not get two Sneak Attacks in just by spending an AP. Once per round max.

Our rogue prefers to hide and throw daggers so he gets annoyed when the fighter knocks enemies prone. I told him to quit whining and be a manly rogue and just go up and stab the enemy.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

A rogue could not get two Sneak Attacks in just by spending an AP. Once per round max.

Our rogue prefers to hide and throw daggers so he gets annoyed when the fighter knocks enemies prone. I told him to quit whining and be a manly rogue and just go up and stab the enemy.

Ah yes, you are correct...I forgot that it's only once per round. Even still though, my point still stands. I can see why a party as a whole would get more mileage out of Icy Terrain versus Grasping Shadows, but I can also see either option working.

 

[im_robertb]

I just want to outline a bit of the history of this power:

1) It appears in the Class Acts article doing 2d8 damage.
2) It appears in the compiled download of Dragon 364 that month doing 1d8 damage.
3) It appears in Arcane Power doing 2d8 damage.
4) The Arcane Power Updates change it back to doing 1d8.
Really, WotC, if you're having that hard of a time deciding between whether it should be 1d8 or 2d8, then make it 2d4/1d10/1d12/2d6/3d4; it seems that neither 1d8 nor 2d8 is the answer. Either that, or learn to proofread.

 

[mach1.9pants]

LOL
4) In AP errata as 1d8... soon