Grasping Weapons being thrown...?

[Danceofmasks]

Well, there is the improved grab feat in PHB2 ... +4/+6/+8 feat bonus.
Which is the hack?
If both are, then it's dubious for them to stack.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, there is the improved grab feat in PHB2 ... +4/+6/+8 feat bonus.
Which is the hack?
If both are, then it's dubious for them to stack.

Well, Grasping Weapons IMHO should give you a reach grab capability, which is beyond hack and into being a pretty nice magic item power. That's fine, magic items should give you some added capabilities. Improved Grab is DEFINITELY a way for a character to fix the high level uselessness of grab. I think it is an infinitely better solution than making people have a magic weapon for that. It is kind of bad that they stack, but I'm not sure how that could have been avoided without adding new game mechanics. I guess the answer is really "don't give out high plus Grasping Weapons." A +1 Grasping Halberd or whatever is enough to allow the reach grab. Then if people want more than that, they can take the feat.

 

[MarkB]

The property of a Grasping Weapon allows you to use it with enhancement bonus. "You can use this weapon to grab targets, adding the weapon's enhancement bonus to your grab attack. You can still use this weapon to attack a target you've grabbed with it."

They did however neglect in that to deal with the fact that you can only grab things that are adjacent to you, so by RAW it cannot be used with a grab attack beyond 1 square, even if the weapon has reach.

I think that's the intended effect.

As it stands, if you're wielding a Reach weapon you can either use it at-will to grab an adjacent opponent, or attack a non-adjacent opponent with it, and then activate its encounter power to drag them adjacent to you and grab them. The whole point of that Encounter power is that, once per encounter, it effectively allows you to grab an opponent who is within your weapon's reach but not adjacent to you.

I don't believe it was ever the intention that you should be able to do so with every attack made with the weapon.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think that's the intended effect.

As it stands, if you're wielding a Reach weapon you can either use it at-will to grab an adjacent opponent, or attack a non-adjacent opponent with it, and then activate its encounter power to drag them adjacent to you and grab them. The whole point of that Encounter power is that, once per encounter, it effectively allows you to grab an opponent who is within your weapon's reach but not adjacent to you.

I don't believe it was ever the intention that you should be able to do so with every attack made with the weapon.

Yeah, now that I think about it, that is true. The ability to throw a Grasping Weapon and activate its power however is clearly a flaw in the rules. It would not be a big deal if it operated at a range of 3-5 squares, VERY powerful but within the realm of what other item powers can do. But instantly pulling an enemy 20 squares across the battlefield, no. Consider, it isn't teleporting, if there is any kind of zone or anything else like that in the way, the target is going to be dragged through it. That is just utterly vicious and FAR beyond anything the rules allow by intent.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Why would it drag the target?

Additionally, any kind of forced movement (except for the "pull grabbed creature action) breaks the grab... so at best, you would throw the spear, grab him, then try to drag him which would break the grab and mean that he would no longer be dragged...

 

[MarkB]

Why would it drag the target?

Additionally, any kind of forced movement (except for the "pull grabbed creature action) breaks the grab... so at best, you would throw the spear, grab him, then try to drag him which would break the grab and mean that he would no longer be dragged...

The way it's worded, the order of events would seem to be the other way around. The weapon pulls the target to a square adjacent to you, then grabs it.

 

[NMcCoy]

That is just utterly vicious and FAR beyond anything the rules allow by intent.

Chains of Fire, Sorcerer Encounter Attack 13 is a ranged 10 power that can hit two targets and slide one to be adjacent to the other. Even without something that increases your powers' range, that's potentially an 18-square slide.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Yes but chains of fire is a level 13 power. A +2 grasping weapon (a level 6 item) can be found as treasure 11 levels earlier.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Why would it drag the target?

Additionally, any kind of forced movement (except for the "pull grabbed creature action) breaks the grab... so at best, you would throw the spear, grab him, then try to drag him which would break the grab and mean that he would no longer be dragged...

Clearly it pulls the target, the power entry for the weapon SAYS it pulls the target, that trumps any more general rule. It "pulls the target into an unoccupied square adjacent to you." (AV 70).

What I am asserting is the power entry for this item was written with a view towards melee weapons with reach (a grasping weapon can be a spear or a polearm) in which case the power is relatively minor, you can stick someone with your halberd that is 2 squares from you and pull them up next to you. Pretty good, but not unreasonable for a level 6 item, which a level 2 character could find in a standard treasure parcel. It is on par with a plethora of other forced movement powers.

When applied to a range 20 missile weapon (javelin or tratnyr) however it is a really HUGE power for such a low level character to have. It is even a pretty awesome power for any heroic tier character to have. Thus I have to conclude that the power was not really meant for ranged attack use. Of course overall it is a trivial thing, DMs just shouldn't give out a Grasping Javelin or they will be surprised at where their monsters end up on the battlefield!

 

[Danceofmasks]

Enchant Magic Item ritual says it's often not up to the GM.
Either to say outright it doesn't work, or allow it.
'cos ... Throw Harpoon "Get Over Here!" Uppercut Remove Mask & Breathe Fire Fatality is made of awesome.
I wanna play Scorpion, now.