D&D (2024) Graze on a miss questions

[Minigiant]

I always 50% of HP as parry points.

There is no bonus to defense from your weapon.
So to me, 90% of high level weapons fights are lightsaber duels.

Koraaaaaaaaaaah Mataaaaaaah
Parry Parry Parry Parry Parry Improvised Blow to the face Stab in the Gut Nooooooooo!

There is no bonus to defense from your weapon. Especially in 5e were bonuses were limited.
Opponents rolled higher armor but not the arms. Every parry and dodge is draining. Eventually you run out of steam and get gutted.

That's why attack to unconscious enemies should be fatal if you hit.

The problem with Graze is the damage is so low,it is a waste of time tracking. That's why we never used to track it in P&P but many computer games have Grazes.

 

[Reef]

I always 50% of HP as parry points.

There is no bonus to defense from your weapon.
So to me, 90% of high level weapons fights are lightsaber duels.

Koraaaaaaaaaaah Mataaaaaaah
Parry Parry Parry Parry Parry Improvised Blow to the face Stab in the Gut Nooooooooo!

There is no bonus to defense from your weapon. Especially in 5e were bonuses were limited.
Opponents rolled higher armor but not the arms. Every parry and dodge is draining. Eventually you run out of steam and get gutted.

That's why attack to unconscious enemies should be fatal if you hit.

The problem with Graze is the damage is so low,it is a waste of time tracking. That's why we never used to track it in P&P but many computer games have Grazes.

I pretty much agree with everything except it being a waste of time tracking. Even at high levels, 5 points isn’t nothing. It’s unlikely to be a game changer, but it sure is a nice consolation prize. And it’s not like it takes anymore time. The DM says hit or miss and the player then responds with “5 damage” or “(rolls) damage”.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The board game is the board game. New rules to change up how the board game plays makes for a more interesting board game and introduces new strategic options for the board game. New strategic options are supposed to make the board game more interesting.

And then on top of the board game get layered a bunch of words and fiction that we use to embelish the rolling of dice and adding and subtracting numbers to make it "feel" like real-life swordfighting combat. But those words never completely align to the way the board game numbers work, there is always a discrepancy here and there between the way the numbers go and what the fiction is we are layering on top to make it replicate "real combat". And if you want/expect a perfect alignment, you shouldn't bother layering fluff on top of the board game at all because that perfect alignment doesn't and can't exist. Real-life swordfighting cannot be replicated using dice. Most especially Dungeons & Dragons dice. The Riddle of Steel is an RPG much, much closer to actual swordfighting and even that has some discrepancies.

So enjoy the board game for what it is, and change the words and fluff if you need to if it doesn't work for you in whatever specific instance you are looking at. But just note that your issue is just that-- yours. And it is impossible for the designers to design the game specifically your own sensibilities. Everyone one of us will have a moment where we go "Meh... don't like that". But that's just the way it has to be sometimes.

 

[CleverNickName]

I could understand this sentiment if the player had to roll for the Graze damage. But it’s just the player’s STR or DEX, so it’s not like Graze adds any additional time to the player’s turn.

Most characters have at least an 18 or a 20 in their primary combat stat by the time they hit Level 4. The average result of a d10 is 5.5, so a character with a Graze weapon and a +5 ability modifier is dealing (on average) 10.5 points of damage on a hit, and nearly half that much on a 'miss.' That's not an insignificant amount!

I'd rather not use it at all, and let a 'miss' truly remain an actual miss. But if I'm pressed into it--if my players insisted we switch editions and the devs baked it into the game so deeply that I can't easily houserule it away--I'd rather they make it just one single point of damage, always. Let Graze truly be a "graze," not "half a hit."

 

[bedir than]

Most characters have at least an 18 or a 20 in their primary combat stat by the time they hit Level 4.

Having played with dozens of people and probably twice that in characters I've seen zero 20s, ever. And I haven't seen an 18 until 8th level

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Having played with dozens of people and probably twice that in characters I've seen zero 20s, ever. And I haven't seen an 18 until 8th level

Wow! I think I've seen a total of 1 character who didn't have at least an 18 at level 8. And that was only because that character found Gauntlets of Ogre Strength early and so could get away with not increasing his natural STR.

 

[CleverNickName]

Wow! I think I've seen a total of 1 character who didn't have at least an 18 at level 8. And that was only because that character found Gauntlets of Ogre Strength early and so could get away with not increasing his natural STR.

My players are all about the optimization. Back when I let them use Point Buy, everyone would put the 15 in their prime stat, use race options to boost it to 17, then use their 4th level ASI to kick it up to 19. By level 8, they would either kick it up to 20 with a feat, or use that +2 ASI to boost their second-highest stat up to a 17 or 18. Every single player at the table would do this.

 

[Parmandur]

My players are all about the optimization. Back when I let them use Point Buy, everyone would put the 15 in their prime stat, use race options to boost it to 17, then use their 4th level ASI to kick it up to 19. By level 8, they would either kick it up to 20 with a feat, or use that +2 ASI to boost their second-highest stat up to a 17 or 18. Every single player at the table would do this.

The game specifically isn't designed around considering optimizers, though, since per WotC thataminority plausible. A big point of 5E was juat letting optimizers win by being marginally better, while making sure the game works when that's not going on.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

nothing to see here

 

[Reef]

Most characters have at least an 18 or a 20 in their primary combat stat by the time they hit Level 4. The average result of a d10 is 5.5, so a character with a Graze weapon and a +5 ability modifier is dealing (on average) 10.5 points of damage on a hit, and nearly half that much on a 'miss.' That's not an insignificant amount!

I'd rather not use it at all, and let a 'miss' truly remain an actual miss. But if I'm pressed into it--if my players insisted we switch editions and the devs baked it into the game so deeply that I can't easily houserule it away--I'd rather they make it just one single point of damage, always. Let Graze truly be a "graze," not "half a hit."

It works out (obviously) less than the minimum possible damage. So a great sword would do 7-17 points on a hit, and 5 on a miss. Assuming a non-magical weapon. Doesn’t feel that horrible to me, especially since it’s not uncommon to be 8th level before hitting that 20.

But if this is a bump you just can’t get over, there’s no shame in that! We all have our own gotchas. My only recommendation in that case is to not neuter it down to just one point…that’s just so worthless as to be insulting. A better idea I think would be to just replace it with one of the other heavy weapon masteries (push, cleave, etc). Otherwise I’d guess your players would just gravitate to those weapons instead of the Graze ones.