Greater Dispell Magic

[Baneblade]

Hello there! Kinda new player here and I need a hand with this spell.

I simply can't understand what do you have to roll the hit with GDM and what's the bonus in rolls and how can you resists it.

 

[Dandu]

You don't roll to hit. Nor are there saving throws. You select either a target or an area, and then roll a caster level check. If you overcome a DC determined by the caster level of the spell you are trying to dispel, you dispel it.

 

[Baneblade]

Okay and how does the +20 on GDS work? You get +extra 20 on your dice roll or what?

 

[Dandu]

Only if you're caster level is at 20.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

GDM is a caster level check. You roll d20 and add your CL, up to a maximum of +20 at CL 20, as defined by the spell. It's very similar to the rules for spell resistance, another caster level check where you have to roll equal to or above a certain DC (in that case, the creature's spel resistance amount).

There's no attack roll or save. Just a matchup of sheer will between you and the caster of whatever effect(s) you're trying to dispel.

 

[frankthedm]

Okay and how does the +20 on GDS work? You get +extra 20 on your dice roll or what?

The plus 20 is a limit, not an additional modifier. When trying to use Dispel Magic & Greater Dispel Magic, you add your level as a bonus to a d20 roll. Normal dispel magic has a crippling cap of +10, while GDS has a +20 cap on that bonus.

IME Dispelling has a woefully low success rate

 

[Malachei]

IME Dispelling has a woefully low success rate

Indeed, and there is also the issue that in epic levels, your caster level increases, while your Dispel Magic is capped. Even the Dispel variants in Spell Compendium and PHB II are capped at +20.

In one of my campaigns, the players are level ~18, so they are facing enemies with caster levels above 20th -- and as they increase in level, they'll need every dispel strength they can get.

As Epic Spellcasting in the campaign will remain be optional (and story-driven), we're facing an issue here.

How do you folks handle this? Any ideas? Is everybody using epic spellcasting (dispel seed)? Would you consider removing the cap on GDM or at least on Reaving Dispel (SC)?

 

[jefgorbach]

With Dispel Magic, you select either a specific target or a general area then add your caster's level to 1d20 and compare it against the level of whomever crafted the effect you're attempting to dispel.
Note: Dispel Magic limits your level modifier to 10, GDM limits it to 20.



Has anyone else considered UNCAPPING the level modified so the spell is both more logical and usable regardless of the campaign's level?

 

[Shin Okada]

I have never played real epic campaign. But my last 3.5e campaign reached to 21st-level. And yes, some of the opponents did have 21+ CL.

But the party Sorcerer has Draconic Power feat (CL +1), Ring of Arcane Might (CL +1), CL +1 Ioun Stone (CL +1) and the robe which incleases CL of Abjuration spell by +1. As a result, her Chain Dispel roll was 1d20+25 at level 21st. Another PC, a cleric, had Divine Spellpower feat and often done nearly good.

Well, if I were to play true epic campaign, maybe I will make improved version of dispel spells as 10+ level spells.

 

[jefgorbach]

I have never played real epic campaign. But my last 3.5e campaign reached to 21st-level. And yes, some of the opponents did have 21+ CL.

But the party Sorcerer has Draconic Power feat (CL +1), Ring of Arcane Might (CL +1), CL +1 Ioun Stone (CL +1) and the robe which incleases CL of Abjuration spell by +1. As a result, her Chain Dispel roll was 1d20+25 at level 21st. Another PC, a cleric, had Divine Spellpower feat and often done nearly good.

Well, if I were to play true epic campaign, maybe I will make improved version of dispel spells as 10+ level spells.

Ah and there's my point ... you COULDNT have a +25 bc of the cap.

It seems an odd question, but how many 3rd level slots (1d20 +10 max) does your very knowledgeable Mage expand before deciding random chance is working against him and perhaps he needs to devote a little more thought into undoing this particular enchantment and start expending his 6th level spell slots (1d20 +20 max) since he's unaware of the difference per-se (in character vs game mechanic knowledge)

Granted, he could take the time/effort to extend the DM progression curve by researching a 9th level Even Greater Dispel Magic variant allowing upto +30 CL modifier ... although one might also consider why anyone with THAT level of experience/knowledge would undertake the time/expense involved in the research vs using a 7th level Limited Wish to unravel the enchantment.

ie: DM/GDM seem akin to a Hydroelectric Engineer whose been in the field for several decades spending several hours/days attempting to resolve an irksome problem regarding fluid transfer using quadratic equations (+10 max) before realizing he really needs to apply some integral calculus (+20 max) ... not that it'll do much good bc he really needs to apply Bernoullis Theorem (+22), which he cant (even thou he's aware of it) bc doing so would exceed reality's +20 modifier threshold.