Greater Wolfwere NPC with Class levels. How do I work out a 'fair' CR?

[Heathen72]

Hi Everyone,

I hope this is the right forum for this. A wee bit of background: I am reintroducing a character into my 3rd Ed campaign - he was a major NPC back when it was based in 2nd Ed Ravenloft. Well, the characters finally escaped that realm (and ruleset) and now, after several years, so has he. The characters are now 16th level (A very tough priest and an extremely versatile conjuror) He is a Greater Wolfwere* I want him to be a little tougher than they are (CR 17-18 maybe?) and as they know he was a spellcaster I have decided to give him class levels in Sorceror (He was a bard in Ravenloft, but the spell lists don't seem to match up with what they know he could cast).

A Greater Wolfwere is CR 7. The question is: How many class levels do I give him and still have him present a decent challenge?

With RAW, I should probably choose Level 10, (total CR 17) but I would like him to be able to match it with the party - at least a little when it comes to throwing around a few spells - and caster level 10 just seems too weak. I looked at the PHB and a level that is a little more appropriate is 14, but that gives him a CR of 21! Technically, anyway. But does it really? Or does that balance between Monster CR and Class levels break down at higher levels?

I want him to be tough - he was a major NPC back in the day and the PC's really like him; I know they would be disappointed if they took him down too easily - but by the same token they are a lot tougher now, and it would be just as disappointing if he just wiped them out.

What do you guys reckon?
Thanks in advance.


*Ravenloft Denizens Monster Manual. Sorry I don't have the stats on me right now - I will try to post them later

 

[Cabral]

Holy Quadruple Post, Wolf-man! .... nananananana...NA NA! .... nanananananana NA NA!

Silliness aside. each PC class level increases the CR by 1. NPC class levels increase the CR by NPC levels -1 (minimum of +1)

 

[Shin Okada]

I don't know the stats of said Greater Wolfwere creature. But there is a rule regarding adding class level to a monster in Monster Manual chapter 4. Read that chapter and determine CR by yourself. Basically, unless the said creature (before adding Sorcerer class levels) does cast spells as a sorcerer, Sorcerer class is considered to be "Nonassociated" class to that creature. Then, until the Sorcerer levels matches to the number of HDs or the original creature, add 1/2 of the Sorcerer level as CR to the monster.

For example, if the original creature is 10HD, adding 10 levels of Sorcerer increases the CR by +5. If you add 14 levels of sorcerer, it increases CR by +9 (10 divided by 2 +4).

But beware. As written in that very same chapter, assuming CR is not a science. Final CR should be determined by DMs through testing, not by simple calculation.

Edit : If the said creature casts spells as a sorcerer, sorcerer level is associated. If not, Nonassociated.

 

[Heathen72]

I don't know the stats of said Greater Wolfwere creature. But there is a rule regarding adding class level to a monster in Monster Manual chapter 4.

Thanks. I had looked through the MM but I couldn't find it - I'll check again tonight. (Was it in the 3.0 MM?)

Holy Quadruple Post, Wolf-man! .... nananananana...NA NA! .... nanananananana NA NA!

Tell me about it! - my browser seized up totally. I'm glad I wasn't buying something!

 

[Shin Okada]

Thanks. I had looked through the MM but I couldn't find it - I'll check again tonight. (Was it in the 3.0 MM?)

It is only in 3.5e MM. Chapter 4: Improving Monsters.

 

[Cabral]

Adding Class Levels from the SRD

 

[Heathen72]

Thanks heaps, Guys

 

[the Jester]

So what's the final level on this guy?

What's a greater wolfwere's HD, anyhow?

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

I am not a big mage/sorceror player, but I have seen what they do from a players experience in the party, and one thing I noted, it really doesnt do to multiclass a mage/sorceror IF your going offensive spellcasting (adding mage/sorceror to a creature is like multiclassing to me) because you really do need to keep your spell power to the max as you level. PrC thats add spell levels work though.

So if you are adding spell casting levels to a monster, and that monster is in the main, a melee monster, consider using your spell levels to buff yourself, thereby negating the worry about the enemy making saves.

People with far more spellcasting experience can tell you if im talking rubbish or not, it just seemed ot me playing priests that buffing and healing was always far more effective regardless of priest levels, compared to offensive spellcasting if I multiclassed.

As for CR or the other way round ECL, im at a loss, we still play 3.0 and there isnt much help for people to work stuff out, r even a good guidline

Feegle Out

 

[QuaziquestGM]

You can cheat. Give him the caster levels, but don't give him the hit dice. Up the skills and saves as you think is reasonable. Heck, Give 'em a couple of levels of bard too. and if he had spells back in the day that aren't on the current class spell lists, let him have them anyway as it is already established that he has them.