Greatsword: To mercurial or not to mercurial?

[Creeperman]

Hey! Give me back my character!

Alain: male human Ftr7; CR 7; Medium-size Humanoid (human); HD 7d10+14; hp 73; Init +1 (Dex); Spd 40 ft; AC 20 (+8 masterwork full plate, +1 Dex, +1 Dodge); Atks +14/+9 melee (2d8+10/crit x4, Final Judgement), or +11/+6 melee (1d8+4, heavy mace), or +11/+6 melee (1d4+4/crit 19-20, dagger), or +8/+3 ranged (1d4+4/crit 19-20, dagger), or +8/+3 ranged (1d8/crit x3, longbow); AL NG; SV Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +2; Str 18, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8.

Skills and Feats: Bluff +1, Climb +2, Craft (armorsmithing) +3, Craft (weaponsmithing) +3, Handle Animal +1, Intimidate +3, Jump +12, Knowledge (history) +3, Listen +3, Move Silently -2, Ride +3, Sense Motive +2, Spot +4, Swim -22; Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Heavy Mercurial Greatsword), Expertise, Improved Trip, Knockdown, Mobility, Weapon Focus (Heavy Mercurial Greatsword), Weapon Specialization (Heavy Mercurial Greatsword).

Possessions: Final Judgement (+2 heavy adamantine mercurial greatsword), composite longbow, heavy mace, dagger, masterwork full plate, boots of striding and springing, lesser harper pin.

As you might tell, I'm headed towards Weapon Master with this character myself. I also invested in the Knockdown feat, which, with my minimum damage of 12, ensures every attack of mine triggers a trip attempt. Useful for keeping enemies from getting off full-attack actions on me, especially considering my relatively weak AC.

As for weaponry, my plans are, in no particular order: Keen, Knockback, Sure Striking, Shocking Burst, and Sweeping. This adds to my combat effectiveness by improving both criticals and knockdowns, which should keep me mostly unharmed despite my aforementioned weak AC. And when I pick up Ki Whirlwind... let the bodies fly.

 

[Gromm]

OH! Of course! A keen mercurial greatsword with improved critical! 18-20x4!

vs 15-20 x2?
Both seem good to me.

 

[Psifon]

Hey Creeperman

Great minds think alike eh?

A couple of points:

Merc. Greatsword has been errata-ed so that you only do 2d6 with a X2 critical. Also, you dou realize that knockdown attacks that fail also provoke a free trip attack against you right?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

19-20 X2 is (almost) the same thing as X3. The MGW is X4. Is it worth a feat? Perhaps, but only if you intend to quickly take all the necessary feat to maximize your investment (WF, WS, IC)

As for mercurial weapon being silly; indeed! Even by a fantasy game standard most people find these to be goofy in the extreme.

Mind you, 2D6 X4 are just statistics. A new weapon could be designed to match with them. I think these kind of stats are better suited for an axe-like weapon. Perhaps some sort of large military pick or something along these lines.

 

[Creeperman]

Re: Hey Creeperman

Great minds think alike eh?

A couple of points:

Merc. Greatsword has been errata-ed so that you only do 2d6 with a X2 critical. Also, you dou realize that knockdown attacks that fail also provoke a free trip attack against you right?

Note that my weapon and attendant feats are for a heavy mercurial greatsword, as described in Magic of Faerun. So the 2d8 is correct. It is slightly house-ruled in that adamantine is not normally considered to be "heavy," but my DM described the blade as thicker and heavier, with more mercury in the shaft.

As for Knockdown, actually, no, it doesn't provoke a counter-trip. While you do use the trip mechanics to resolve the attempt, you are not making an actual trip attack. A normal Trip is actually a special unarmed touch attack (or melee touch attack with a weapon that has the "trip" option in its description), while Knockdown is a normal melee attack with whatever weapon you used the score the hit, using a normal attack roll (provided you inflict the requisite ten points of damage).

If it helps you visualize, consider a normal Trip attack to be a finessed action in which you tangle up your opponent's feet with your own (or your trip-option weapon), while a Knockdown is a brute-force, knock 'em head-over-heels hammer blow.

Besides, if Knockdown allowed counter trips, it'd be a suicidal feat that no one would touch with a ten-foot pole. Who wants a feat that's guaranteed to trip you up at least once a round at high levels?

 

[Gaiden]

If you are at all considering power critical as a feat get merc great sword.

btw - in the end your keen great sword crit is 13-20 and the merc great sword is 16-20. The 16-20x4 is a lot better than 13-20x2

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Well, there's one benefit that your missing for the MGS. Burst enchantments do more damage when the crit multiplier is higher. A MGS will do +3d10 on a crit if it is burst enchanted.

In my opinion, the 19-20x2 crit is better because it crits more often and wastes less damage. But, if you have the cleave and great cleave feats, it may actially be okay to waste damage because you get to attack again.

If you ask me, it depends on the kind of game you are playing. If you are playing the really high fantasy game where realism takes a back-seat to heroism and cool-factor, go with the merc greatsword. If you are playing a game where enemy fighters will laugh at you and the other melee-ists in the party will cry "munchkin" if you choose the MGS, then take the normal one.

They are both really good weapons.

--Retired Tank Spikey

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Hey Creeperman

Merc. Greatsword has been errata-ed so that you only do 2d6 with a X2 critical...

Argh! Missed that one...

 

[Galfridus]

If you get a gnome to build your mercurial greatsword, you get a thermometer built in.

Watch out if you ever find an intelligent magical MGS, though, they tend to have mood swings.

 

[Psifon]

Re: Re: Hey Creeperman

As for Knockdown, actually, no, it doesn't provoke a counter-trip. While you do use the trip mechanics to resolve the attempt, you are not making an actual trip attack. A normal Trip is actually a special unarmed touch attack (or melee touch attack with a weapon that has the "trip" option in its description), while Knockdown is a normal melee attack with whatever weapon you used the score the hit, using a normal attack roll (provided you inflict the requisite ten points of damage).

If it helps you visualize, consider a normal Trip attack to be a finessed action in which you tangle up your opponent's feet with your own (or your trip-option weapon), while a Knockdown is a brute-force, knock 'em head-over-heels hammer blow.

Besides, if Knockdown allowed counter trips, it'd be a suicidal feat that no one would touch with a ten-foot pole. Who wants a feat that's guaranteed to trip you up at least once a round at high levels?

I completely and utterly agree that this is the way it should work.

Unfortunately, that is not what the rules say. Nor have I found any errata to change the feat, except to say that you MAY get a free trip attack, instead of you DO get a free trip attack. Basically, you can decide not to use the trip attack if you don' want to risk getting tripped in turn. This means the feat is ONLY useful against bipedal, medium-sized creatures who are (hopefully) weaker than you.

If it didn't work this way, I would certainly take the feat in a minute. My advise to you Creeperman is to ask your DM if you can change feats.