Green Dragon Tactics against a Deepwood Sniper

[kenjib]

Even if you get the first round of shots off, why would the dragon stand there taking arrow after arrow? If he can't find you he's just going to leave and go after you later on his own terms.

Plus, the dragon is smart. If someone's shooting at him out of his blindsight range, it's obvious that there is a long line of sight. If he's standing in a river bank, then where does line of sight come from? The dragon can figure this out pretty quickly. Add to this the fact that he wil obviously know which direction the arrows are coming from, since they are plinking against his scales on that side.

So, the dragon will know the direction of the archer and can close that distance very quickly until blindsight kicks in. Once the dragon is in range it just breathes poison gas once and the archer is dead. If you are incredibly lucky it just follows up with a quick swipe of the claw and that's that. The dragon doesn't even need to bring out the really heavy guns (spells). Why bother exerting itself?

Without some kind of cheapshot like a super poison (and who's to say the dragon is hungry for deer flesh at that moment, especially when it can smell the stench of elves all over it - a little suspicious perhaps?) or arrow of dragon slaying, it's really not looking good...

 

[Shard O'Glase]

You're thinking 2e.

I've been doing that more and more recently, I blame hackmaster. Doing my happy psycho battlemage dance, cause I get to play and don't have to run hackmaster.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Without some kind of cheapshot like a super poison (and who's to say the dragon is hungry for deer flesh at that moment, especially when it can smell the stench of elves all over it - a little suspicious perhaps?) or arrow of dragon slaying, it's really not looking good...

Well thematically a super poison on an arrow fits a deepwood sniper with their handle poison special ability gained at like level 2 or 3. So I'm not sure I'd call it a cheapshot, just how a deepwood sniper opperates.

 

[mmu1]

I assume you asked this without reading all the posts in the thread. He won't be attacking the dragon 500' through the trees. The idea is to lure the dragon into the sky, or at the very least along a riverbank where he'll be hiding 500' downstream.

So... He's supposed stay in the sky or on the riverbank long enough for you to do several hundred points of damage when you can only hit on a 20?

This is not a well thought-out scenario... If he's a real wyrm you have no way of hurting him, no way of making him go where you'd like him to be, and no way to stop him if (should he feel like it) he decides to fly to a nearby town and start dropping houses with people still in them in your general vicinity until you stop...

If he is a Wyrm, and you do beat him, it'll all be the doing of some powerful NPC, or strict deus ex machina. If you do "win", it'll be because the DM gave it away. Might as well go "Oh, look, the dragon is really a pinata...

 

[Caliban]

I assume you asked this without reading all the posts in the thread. He won't be attacking the dragon 500' through the trees. The idea is to lure the dragon into the sky, or at the very least along a riverbank where he'll be hiding 500' downstream.

You want to go after a CR 21 creature with a 10th level character? Suicide.

A Wyrm Green Dragon is 35 HD (over 500 hit points) with a Wisdom of 21, and Spot is a "class" skill. It will have a spot of at least +43, and may have a magic item or spell that buffs it further. Even with a -50 to the spot check from the 500 feet of distance, it will know the general direction and area the arrows came from.

Even at +19 to hit, you need to roll a natural 20 to hit AC 40. And you should have a -6 range penalty at 500 feet, even with a Composite Longbow and the Far Shot feet. Catching the dragon flat-footed won't help, as he has no dex bonus to his AC.

Even if you do get your attack bonus up high enough that you can hit him, you better hope that he doesn't have the Wind Wall spell. As a 15th level caster it create a Wind Wall that is 75 feet high and 150 feet long, and can put it 250 feet in front of it. Cast it out to the extent of it's range in the direction the arrow came from, and advance under cover of the wall, completely immune to arrows.

Or obscuring mist, fog cloud, etc. None of those spells will impede it's senses, but will make it nearly impossible to hit.

If it has Dimension Door it can simply teleport 500 or so feet in the direction of the arrow, or even just 250 feet, which would put you in range of it's blindsight. (Blindsight 330' radious for a Wyrm.)

You would only get one or two rounds before the dragon has located you and then one or two more rounds before it is in melee range with you (if it wants to be). Being a Wyrm Green Dragon, it may just get within 200 feet of you and then take control of you with Dominate Person. How are your Will Saves? It's going to be a DC 20+ Will save.

 

[Kai Lord]

So... He's supposed stay in the sky or on the riverbank long enough for you to do several hundred points of damage when you can only hit on a 20?

That's why I'm trying to work the Poison angle. 27 Con is a lot easier to take down than 500 hit points...if I can get the poison to take effect. Another long shot alternative would be to force a Fort save due to Massive damage (he can exceed 50 points on a Critical) and hope he rolls a 1. Unless I'm mistaken that 1's are not automatic failures.

This is not a well thought-out scenario... If he's a real wyrm you have no way of hurting him,

I don't buy that. With the right ambush, my guy can hurt him. And if it bleeds, we can kill it.

 

[Xarlen]

THat's right, a bull can bleed. But I don't think a mouse is capable of killing him.

If a 10th level character, ANY class kills a CR 21 dragon alone, then either you're broken out the window, or the DM is just giving it to you.

 

[Caliban]

That's why I'm trying to work the Poison angle. 27 Con is a lot easier to take down than 500 hit points...if I can get the poison to take effect. Another long shot alternative would be to force a Fort save due to Massive damage (he can exceed 50 points on a Critical) and hope he rolls a 1. Unless I'm mistaken that 1's are not automatic failures.

So you are gambling that you will roll 2 natural 20's in a row, do over 50 points of damage on the crit, and that he will roll a 1 on the Fort save?

Ok.

I don't buy that. With the right ambush, my guy can hurt him. And if it bleeds, we can kill it.

Just hope that it doesn't have Heal as once of it's available spells.

 

[Nightfall]

Cast Ephod of Melee, and then cast Vangal's Dogs of War. Have THEM scent down the bastard!

 

[Xarlen]

So you are gambling that you will roll 2 natural 20's in a row, do over 50 points of damage on the crit, and that he will roll a 1 on the Fort save?

Remember, this is the same guy that argued a Peerless Archer is the best by using the 'I roll a crit with every shot, doing all possible damage, getting sneak attacks when I can't even get them' in a best case scenario.