Green Dragon Tactics against a Deepwood Sniper

[Caliban]

Well it would be nice to have a brillant energy weapon with wounding on it. At least then you could actually hit the bastard and do some damage

That wouldn't help either. Brilliant energy weapons don't ignore natural armor.

Here's what you do, have one suicidal fanatically cleric, who just happens to have spring attack CHarge the beast and release a harm about its big booty. Then fire your arrows and slay the bastard.

And hope the 15th level sorcerer/dragon who can also cast cleric spells doesn't have a contingency -->heal combo set up. Most of very old dragons in my games do (that's how they lived to be that old when they have a crappy touch AC and harm spells are floating around).

Unless you've got some help in weakening this creature, you shouldn't be able to beat it in this scenario. Maybe over the course of a day with various ambushes would you might have a chance at it, but sitting in a tree from far away is going to get you wasted.

Pretty much. The only chance he has is the two natural 20's, followed by a 50+ damage roll, followed by a natural 1 on the dragons part. It's somewhere below a .01% chance.

 

[Caliban]

Pretty much. That's why its cool.

Heh, my definition of cool is living to fight another day, not leaving an acid charred corpse.

Does Blindsight work against characters underwater?

Yup. Especially for Green Dragons, who can fly at full speed, use their breathe weapon, and all their spell-like abilities under water without any ill-effects.

What if I fired off a volley of arrows 5' from the shore then jumped into the cold water and let the current take me away.

Depends. If you missed, the dragon would probably ignore you and focus on killing whater it was that lured him out of his lair.

This whole attack will take place at night, and all the dragon will know is that I was outside of its Blindsight, probably along the riverbed. That's a lot of ground to cover if he wants to unleash hell in my direction.

Um, the dragon also has darkvision that is effective out to 1100 feet, and low-light vision that is twice as good an an elf's. It can see just as clearly as if you had staged this at high noon.

If a full attack wouldn't give him enough mobility to get in the water, then he could fire off a prayer shot and if it hits use his movement to dive under the water.

Of course you'll tell me if this course of action would be totally futile either way.

If you hit and do significant damage, it probably won't do you any good.

If you miss (as you probably will), then he will probably consider you beneath his notice.

Hmm, maybe I should have some of the fodder elves lining the riverbeds as decoys with their griffons just behind the treeline. They each fire off an arrow when they see the dragon get pissed that I hit him then jump on their griffons and scatter. There's no way for the dragon to know who the shot came from, and it might give me the oppurtunity to get off a few more shots if he gives chase to one of the griffon riders.

How many fellow elves are you willing to sacrifice while attempting to make a one in a hundred thousand arrow shot?

It definitely looks like natural 20 will be the order of the day.

Pretty much. And even then, it's unlikely that you will kill him if you hit him.

If go with the griffon rider decoy trick he won't know which one is me.

That might by you anywhere from 1-10 rounds, depending on how fast he can kill the griffons and/or riders. He's pretty much guaranteed one griffon a round, and possible more if he lines them up right or they group up.

I think I can make it difficult to figure out which one of those pesky elves is doing the damage, maybe even long enough to do more damage....

I don't think he will even notice you, because you aren't going to be able to hit him.

 

[Kai Lord]

Despite the fact it's just blatantly pulled out, almost word for word, out of a Dragonlance book, or because it is?

You caught that? Shoot. I was really trying to pass that off as my own. I even changed the names and everything.

 

[Kibo]

That wouldn't help either. Brilliant energy weapons don't ignore natural armor.

And hope the 15th level sorcerer/dragon who can also cast cleric spells doesn't have a contingency -->heal combo set up. Most of very old dragons in my games do (that's how they lived to be that old when they have a crappy touch AC and harm spells are floating around).

Pretty much. The only chance he has is the two natural 20's, followed by a 50+ damage roll, followed by a natural 1 on the dragons part. It's somewhere below a .01% chance.

Doesn't brilliant energy ignore all armor enhancements along with inorganic material? I seem to remember something about that. Not to mention that the Brilliance aura spell also granted a bonus of +1 hit and damage for every 2 caster levels per person in the area of effect. I think it was of a pretty respectable level, beyond the power of a 10th level druid. But still, that + misasma and a bunch of elven archers would not make for a happy dragon. Maybe druids are BROKEN!!!!

If it's Cyan Bloodbane before the end of the war of the lance, the dragon wouldn't be able to cast heal. No one save goldmoon could, and she had to use a staff.

And the odds. 20 x 2 and a what 6 7 8 or maybe a 5 too, on a d8, and a 1 on a 20? Only a 1 in 16,000 chance. Assuming magic arrows significant enough to get through damage reduction. Now if his archer can cast hunters mercy, the odds are a nice 20 times better. If he's blessed with a true strike from something and can cast hunters mercy a nice 400 times better. And an elven druid of 10 levels who also happens to be a silver dragon, that sounds suspiciously familiar aside from the druid part, should be able to improve the odds somewhat. What about that wind spell for druid archers from magic of Fearun that give and insane distance and strike bonus to ranged weapons. I don't recall it being particularly high in level. Not to mention the effect Miasma might have on a dragon who would like to unleash a breath weapon. It's not impossible, but it is in the realm of the extremely unlikely.

At least it's not like Castle Amber where small parties of 3rd to 6th level PC's routinely take out a 100HD flesh colossus! (I'm almost certain that's where they got the idea to make the 3rd edition incarnation from.) Basic D&D and 3rd Ed D&D are BROKEN!!!

 

[Kai Lord]

Oh, please... You can tell by looking at your posts that you're absolutely in love with your character. You're itching to go into it because, despite talk of "suicide", your character is getting the dragon handed to him on a platter...

Pretty much. Two natural 20's to hit and a natural 1 on his Fort save. It really doesn't get any easier than that.

Do me a favor, and post your inevitable story of triumphant victory somewhere else, eh?

But then you'd have to find some other meaningless thing on a messageboard to be bitter about.

 

[Kai Lord]

Yup. Especially for Green Dragons, who can fly at full speed, use their breathe weapon, and all their spell-like abilities under water without any ill-effects.

Okay, so that idea's out. Still have the griffon decoys though.

How many fellow elves are you willing to sacrifice while attempting to make a one in a hundred thousand arrow shot?

All of them. My Kagonesti wild elf isn't a big fan of the Silvanesti that invaded his homeland. As for them, they're fighting for their very kingdom, and everyone knows how the mission is most likely to end up anyway.

That might by you anywhere from 1-10 rounds, depending on how fast he can kill the griffons and/or riders. He's pretty much guaranteed one griffon a round, and possible more if he lines them up right or they group up.

Just a little earlier no one could conceive of my guy surviving to round two. Now one of the most respected rules gurus here concedes that his decoy trick could buy him up to ten rounds. 10 rounds. He can do something in 10 rounds.

Like you said, the dragon won't even bother with an insignifant gnat like me until I do significant damage. And significant damage means he's making a Fort save. This "1 in a 100,000" just became 1 in 20.

Once that happens the griffons scatter and I've got about ten rounds to make another critical. He crits on a 19-20, and since he'll most likely get somebody in the elven high court to enchant the hell out of his bow he should be able to hit with a 19, maybe an 18. At 480' he's only firing at -4.

10 rounds to get another lucky hit in and force a Fort save. It can happen. Theoretically.

Obviously this endeavor will most likely turn into a "the caca hits the fan" experience, but that in and of itself might be cool to roleplay. I can see potential for all kinds of cinematic dynamics, like the last griffon rider swooping down to get him as they race the dragon back to the castle, their only hope to take their chances with the Dragon Orb... Who knows.

 

[Caliban]

.

 

[Caliban]

All of them. My Kagonesti wild elf isn't a big fan of the Silvanesti that invaded his homeland. As for them, they're fighting for their very kingdom, and everyone knows how the mission is most likely to end up anyway.

Very heroic.

Just a little earlier no one could conceive of my guy surviving to round two.

I had you pegged at 3-5 rounds originally. Not even dragons react instantaneously. I just don't think you will have more than 1-2 rounds with a clear shot.

Now one of the most respected rules gurus here concedes that his decoy trick could buy him up to ten rounds. 10 rounds. He can do something in 10 rounds.

Yeah, miss a lot.

Like you said, the dragon won't even bother with an insignifant gnat like me until I do significant damage. And significant damage means he's making a Fort save. This "1 in a 100,000" just became 1 in 20.

I meant it's about one chance in a 100,000 that you will hit, crit, roll nearly max damage, and he will roll a 1.

It's about 1 in 20 that you will hit him. And even with 10 rounds to try, it's about 1 in 100 that you will crit.

Once that happens the griffons scatter and I've got about ten rounds to make another critical.

Your assuming you make a first critical.

He crits on a 19-20, and since he'll most likely get somebody in the elven high court to enchant the hell out of his bow he should be able to hit with a 19, maybe an 18. At 480' he's only firing at -4.

Remember that the 40 AC is the minimum AC. Any sorcerer worthy of the name will have the shield spell in their collection, and that goes double for a dragon. (magic missiles are one of the few spells that can consistently hurt them until they get their spell resistance.)

Even if you get GMW +5 cast on both your bow and your arrows, that's still only a +7 increase to your attack roll. Even if you didn't have the -4 from range, the shield spell would negate that.

I still think you are only going to hit on a natural 20.

10 rounds to get another lucky hit in and force a Fort save. It can happen. Theoretically.

You seem to be assuming that if you roll a natural 20 and hit him, that you will also confirm that crit. That's a very big if.

Even if you do Crit, you are rolling 4d8+12 (with your own abilities). 50+ is not guaranteed, because average damage is only around 30 points. Now if you manage to get the GMW +5 on both your arrows and the bow, then any crit will most likely do at least 50 points. (4d8+40 damage)

And then he only fails his fort save on a natural 1.

It's just not likely, but more power to you.

Obviously this endeavor will most likely turn into a "the caca hits the fan" experience, but that in and of itself might be cool to roleplay. I can see potential for all kinds of cinematic dynamics, like the last griffon rider swooping down to get him as they race the dragon back to the castle, their only hope to take their chances with the Dragon Orb... Who knows.

Just better hope he doesn't have teleport.

3e dragons are much more powerful than they were when Dragonlance was originally written.

 

[Kai Lord]

3e dragons are much more powerful than they were when Dragonlance was originally written.

Yep, but since I've never DM'd or played against one in 3E, I wanted to know what kind of fight dynamics to expect. My DM knows about this thread and has read every response. Its been a learning experience for both of us, and I haven't overstepped any metagame boundaries because as I said earlier my character will be briefed by a Polymorphed Silver Dragon on exactly what to expect from the Green.

He almost definitely won't go in with only his current equipment, but I wanted to see just what the situation would look like if he did. There are also things about him you don't know, like the fact that he has a 23 Strength and a unique Mighty Composite Longbow +6. Crits at 50+ damage aren't too tough.

I'm kind of glad people have been put off by the fact that I would even try this, or that he actually did kill a dragon with his bow in 1E, because nothing was held back in expressing just how many ways the dragon can annihilate him. Thanks for participating.

 

[kenjib]

He almost definitely won't go in with only his current equipment, but I wanted to see just what the situation would look like if he did.

I think the equipment he needs to go in with is a silver dragon ready and willing to do all of the work for him, because there's not much he can do to help. Get some popcorn. Enjoy the show.