Green Flame, Booming Blade as go to

[Irda Ranger]

It's definitely a tall order. I wouldn't do the Cleric dip, personally.

Since this concept is pretty close to my own character, I mocked up a quick spreadsheet comparing a Ftr/Bladelock with two-handed-sword and Great Weapon Master vs a Ftr/Tomelock with Polearm master, Shillelagh, and GFB.

It's really close, honestly, in a white room analysis. The Stafflock is never quite as good vs the primary target, but they get more total damage if there's a second target that can take the GFB effect. The main downside to the Stafflock is that you use your Bonus Action to get the second attack, whereas the GWM Bladelock has Extra Attack (plus a BA attack in some circumstances). That matters since Hex and your Healing Light uses Bonus Actions.

If you don't take Polearm Master for the bonus attack, there's no way to keep up.

It's kind of a tortured build, to be honest.

 

[Warpiglet]

It's definitely a tall order. I wouldn't do the Cleric dip, personally.

Since this concept is pretty close to my own character, I mocked up a quick spreadsheet comparing a Ftr/Bladelock with two-handed-sword and Great Weapon Master vs a Ftr/Tomelock with Polearm master, Shillelagh, and GFB.

It's really close, honestly, in a white room analysis. The Stafflock is never quite as good vs the primary target, but they get more total damage if there's a second target that can take the GFB effect. The main downside to the Stafflock is that you use your Bonus Action to get the second attack, whereas the GWM Bladelock has Extra Attack (plus a BA attack in some circumstances). That matters since Hex and your Healing Light uses Bonus Actions.

If you don't take Polearm Master for the bonus attack, there's no way to keep up.

It's kind of a tortured build, to be honest.

Well, this is all true. It is tortured. It is even more convoluted than that. The whole thing depends upon thaumaturgy, and instrument proficiency and some other odds and ends for roleplaying.

I always go blade and always take moderately armored. Its a breeze of course with hexblade! And the old level dip makes things easy (though I have never done it). The truth is simply that what I am proposing is NOT numerically superior. Rather, it will be an exercise in management and survival.

That the character does not keep up with optimized builds is less an issue. However, doing enough to survive is really the question. I want to play this particular character--and unlikely hero chose to be the herald of an angel. He is able to use disguise self to do his good work and leave. He is able to wow others with a blast from his horn (thaumaturgy) if he makes pronouncements. But he has to live in dangerous places to spread the good word especially if he wants to learn more powerful magic!

I also wanted to capitalize on a greatsword or other big martial weapon via Hobgoblin. That is a fun treat. And if that is the main trick, going red dragon sorcerer is probably the better way to go. Heck, I could quicken green flame blades with armor (light...maybe magic-ed up enough to match dragon scales?).

But I digress. I want to play the celestial patron. Just struggling with the main go to attack. I could go blade pact but would have to give up a lot of versatility. I think the herald of an angle should be able to detect magic, comprehend languages and so forth...otherwise what kind of emissary are you? The tome boon would do all of that. Just not the two weapon attacks...

(sigh) hate to multiclass but if that is what is necessary, you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[neogod22]

It's definitely a tall order. I wouldn't do the Cleric dip, personally.

Since this concept is pretty close to my own character, I mocked up a quick spreadsheet comparing a Ftr/Bladelock with two-handed-sword and Great Weapon Master vs a Ftr/Tomelock with Polearm master, Shillelagh, and GFB.

It's really close, honestly, in a white room analysis. The Stafflock is never quite as good vs the primary target, but they get more total damage if there's a second target that can take the GFB effect. The main downside to the Stafflock is that you use your Bonus Action to get the second attack, whereas the GWM Bladelock has Extra Attack (plus a BA attack in some circumstances). That matters since Hex and your Healing Light uses Bonus Actions.

If you don't take Polearm Master for the bonus attack, there's no way to keep up.

It's kind of a tortured build, to be honest.

So when it comes to GFB and BB extra attacks don't matter, because you don't get them. When you take the cast a spell action, it's not an attack action. While the spell requires you to make an attack, don't get the 2 confused.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

GFB + Shillelagh is a nice secondary option for a celestial tomelock, and comes at little opportunity cost. But I would use it as a secondary attack, with eldritch blast as primary. No advantage to being a hobgoblin though.

As for leveraging hobgoblin, I would make a war mage, use the bonus weapon proficiencies for Glaive/Halberd and Longbow, and use the Booming Blade + Polearm Master + Spell Sniper (+War Caster) tactic discussed in another thread.

Another fun thing to do with a hobgoblin is a rogue with proficiencies in Whip (and longbow). To get back on theme, make him an arcane trickster with booming blade.

 

[Irda Ranger]

So when it comes to GFB and BB extra attacks don't matter, because you don't get them. When you take the cast a spell action, it's not an attack action. While the spell requires you to make an attack, don't get the 2 confused.

You misunderstood my comment. I compared a Ftr/Bladelock (with Extra Attack) to a Ftr/Tomelock (with Polearm Mastery, Shillelagh and GFB)(and both using Hex), and the first is the superior damage dealer except at high levels when there's as second target within 5'. Under that situation the latter deals more damage due to Cantrip scaling.

 

[neogod22]

You misunderstood my comment. I compared a Ftr/Bladelock (with Extra Attack) to a Ftr/Tomelock (with Polearm Mastery, Shillelagh and GFB)(and both using Hex), and the first is the superior damage dealer except at high levels when there's as second target within 5'. Under that situation the latter deals more damage due to Cantrip scaling.

I see, you were comparing normal attacks, not the cantrip.

 

[Warpiglet]

I actually found a nice synergy. If I was to take two levels of paladin and then go tome boon celestial warlock, smites would add CHR damage...fewer smites but a nice little benefit of doubling up especially if it is added to a greenflame blade attack! CHR would come in to play more than one. Again, fewer attacks but some of them would have some nice bonus damage which is static....

 

[Irda Ranger]

Ugh, I just realized by Ftr/Tomelock with Quarterstaff, Polearm Mastery, and GFB is worse than I thought, because Polearm Mastery requires the Attack action (not a weapon attack) to trigger its BA attack. So you never get two attacks in a turn, just one Hex'd Quarterstaff + GFB damage per turn. The Ftr/Bladelock really demolishes that once it gets Extra Attack (two attacks/rd with possible BA attack, all at 3d6+Str). The Chr bonus fire damage from Celestial Warlock is only an advantage during levels 6-11.

I actually found a nice synergy. If I was to take two levels of paladin and then go tome boon celestial warlock, smites would add CHR damage...fewer smites but a nice little benefit of doubling up especially if it is added to a greenflame blade attack! CHR would come in to play more than one. Again, fewer attacks but some of them would have some nice bonus damage which is static....

Why do Smites add Chr damage? I must be missing something.

I looked at Paladin too. The nice synergy between Pal2/Celestial-lock is searing smite would get the Chr damage bonus on every weapon attack, long before you get Lifedrinker at level 12 (or, uh, 14, with multiclassing). But there you still would benefit from the Extra Attack feature of a Bladelock.

 

[Warpiglet]

Ugh, I just realized by Ftr/Tomelock with Quarterstaff, Polearm Mastery, and GFB is worse than I thought, because Polearm Mastery requires the Attack action (not a weapon attack) to trigger its BA attack. So you never get two attacks in a turn, just one Hex'd Quarterstaff + GFB damage per turn. The Ftr/Bladelock really demolishes that once it gets Extra Attack (two attacks/rd with possible BA attack, all at 3d6+Str). The Chr bonus fire damage from Celestial Warlock is only an advantage during levels 6-11.



Why do Smites add Chr damage? I must be missing something.

I looked at Paladin too. The nice synergy between Pal2/Celestial-lock is searing smite would get the Chr damage bonus on every weapon attack, long before you get Lifedrinker at level 12 (or, uh, 14, with multiclassing). But there you still would benefit from the Extra Attack feature of a Bladelock.

Smites do radiant damage. At 6th level, the CHR damage would be added to such an attack.

So I think I have a contender here. I want to play the herald of an Angel with Thaumaturgy and other cool RP bits. I do not like EB or range primary attack routines.

My solution is going to be to go with a couple levels of paladin total and use greenflame blade and or booming blade for times diplomacy fails.

In this case, I can do extra damage via GFB due to the 6th level celestial feature. Additionally, if I smite (believe I can do so with GFB hits) i can also add CHR damage to its radiant damage.

Severely underpowered in melee compared to a fighter, I feel good enough about my attacks to go with the RP concept. Heck, he might avoid melee until he can't and then do some respectable holy agent whooping.

In other ways this fits---tome of shadows allows for all rituals so I have a guy that can understand languages, ward areas and do other things an Angel's herald should do. He can use Thaumaturgy with a trumpet for some nice ancient religious text flavor to boot.

And I think with his celestial healing on a bonus action as well as tomb of levistus and Armor of Agathys at times, in addition to the other celestial features will allow him to occasionally step in the lion's den and resist evil as he does his patron's bidding...

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Radiant Soul adds charisma to spells that do radiant or fire damage. A regular paladin divine smite isn't a spell, so it wouldn't benefit from the ability. Spells like Searing Smite and Branding Smite would though.