D&D 5E Greyhawk, and race options for Oerth PCs

[Don Durito]

Problem with allowing one outsider is if anyone else wants one.

Then you end up with half or more of the party being outsiders.

I was serious earlier. Make a quota. When I ran Numenera, I basically just said "one of you can be a vistitant [alien], the rest must be human". There were no issues. In the end they were all humans. Mature players should be able to sort it out amongst themselves.

 

[Zardnaar]

I was serious earlier. Make a quota. When I ran Numenera, I basically just said "one of you can be a vistitant [alien], the rest must be human". There were no issues. In the end they were all humans. Mature players should be able to sort it out amongst themselves.

Roll dice.

We had a group blow up last week and there's a waiting list of players/DM shortage.

They tried AL but it didn't work out.

 

[Don Durito]

One of the issues I've found witn D&D is that, because it's D&D, there is less setting buy in than for other games. I've noticed that over the years. If I run practically anything else players will begin by asking me about the setting and about what types of characters they can play. If I say "D&D" they'll immediately assume absolute generica, and start coming up with all kinds of whacky ideas for characters, or that they can just make a character at home and bring it along.

So setting clear expectations and a session 0 in which players make characters together are even more important.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I think it really comes down to communication. Ideally, the DM would have some level of player input on the chosen setting. Or at least, that seems ideal to me. So if that’s the case, then hopefully whatever races players are interested in will have been given consideration. If there’s some mismatch, hopefully one side can explain their case and win the other over, or some compromise can be had.

Yes, we can all think of players who requested utterly ridiculous concepts that were disruptive and also min-maxed to the extreme.

We can also come up with examples of DMs who just don’t want to allow things they don’t like, and who think that their generic fantasy setting is not generic at all because hey, no elves! Wow.

Putting aside those extremes, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a setting going for a specific theme, and therefore having some possible restrictions on race and class. I also can’t blame players for wanting to play the options in the book. The Fabulous World of Gwynnthwirl isn’t in the PHB. But Dragonborn are. They’re probably more excited about that than the setting.

So as with most of these things, it takes consideration and communication. Both sides could do with being a little more willing to work with the other side.

One question I have for those who don’t like the plethora of race options for PCs....do you still have gnolls and bullywugs and kuo-toa and drow and ettercaps and orcs and goblins and giants and lizardmen and kenku and fetchlings and shadar-kai and kobolds and so on? Or is it just player options that you want to limit?

 

[Zardnaar]

I think it really comes down to communication. Ideally, the DM would have some level of player input on the chosen setting. Or at least, that seems ideal to me. So if that’s the case, then hopefully whatever races players are interested in will have been given consideration. If there’s some mismatch, hopefully one side can explain their case and win the other over, or some compromise can be had.

Yes, we can all think of players who requested utterly ridiculous concepts that were disruptive and also min-maxed to the extreme.

We can also come up with examples of DMs who just don’t want to allow things they don’t like, and who think that their generic fantasy setting is not generic at all because hey, no elves! Wow.

Putting aside those extremes, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a setting going for a specific theme, and therefore having some possible restrictions on race and class. I also can’t blame players for wanting to play the options in the book. The Fabulous World of Gwynnthwirl isn’t in the PHB. But Dragonborn are. They’re probably more excited about that than the setting.

So as with most of these things, it takes consideration and communication. Both sides could do with being a little more willing to work with the other side.

One question I have for those who don’t like the plethora of race options for PCs....do you still have gnolls and bullywugs and kuo-toa and drow and ettercaps and orcs and goblins and giants and lizardmen and kenku and fetchlings and shadar-kai and kobolds and so on? Or is it just player options that you want to limit?

Generally player options.
Just because it exists doesn't mean I want someone playing it. Drow as NPCs for example are fine but I may or may not allow Drow PCs.

Sometimes it's just because if they come from that culture they have knowledge I don't want the PCs to have.

Think Aztec in Europe 1450 or something like that.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Generally player options.
Just because it exists doesn't mean I want someone playing it. Drow as PCs for example are fine but I may or may not allow Drow PCs.

Sometimes it's just because if they come from that culture they have knowledge I don't want the PCs to have.

Think Aztec in Europe 1450 or something like that.

Right but then this means the whole “it doesn't make sense that all these races coexist” argument is pretty much out the window.

There’s still tons of sentient humanoid races in any setting I’ve ever seen...barring a few as available to PCs does nothing to change that.

As for cultural knowledge....I’m not sure how a DM can’t mitigate that in some way.

 

[Zardnaar]

Right but then this means the whole “it doesn't make sense that all these races coexist” argument is pretty much out the window.

There’s still tons of sentient humanoid races in any setting I’ve ever seen...barring a few as available to PCs does nothing to change that.

As for cultural knowledge....I’m not sure how a DM can’t mitigate that in some way.

Well the DM might have a hidden menace race planned and doesn't mention it but a player then asks to play that race.


The DM might just simply want to draw more attention to the major races if the setting for storyline reasons.

There's lots of reasons to exclude something and at the end if the day the DMs the boss.

Ideally be upfront where you can or gave a list to what you can play. Next DM I meet who allows Aarakocra will be the first. I vetoed an Aven and Yuan Ti request recently.

 

[Don Durito]

Well the DM might have a hidden menace race planned and doesn't mention it but a player then asks to play that race.


The DM might just simply want to draw more attention to the major races if the setting for storyline reasons.

There's lots of reasons to exclude something and at the end if the day the DMs the boss.

Ideally be upfront where you can or gave a list to what you can play. Next DM I meet who allows Aarakocra will be the first. I vetoed an Aven and Yuan Ti request recently.

There's also just the joy of simple discovery.

The setting may have the lion people who live in the great plains, but you'd just prefer that the PCs discover them first and interact with them and learn about them from the outside. Then, they may be opened up as a PC race, if a character dies, or a new campaign is started in the same setting.

 

[Zardnaar]

There's also just the joy of simple discovery.

The setting may have the lion people who live in the great plains, but you'd just prefer that the PCs discover them first and interact with them and learn about them from the outside. Then, they may be opened up as a PC race, if a character dies, or a new campaign is started in the same setting.

Yeah that's one way. I'm planning on adding a Homebrew race for that option if they can revive them

 

[hawkeyefan]

Well the DM might have a hidden menace race planned and doesn't mention it but a player then asks to play that race.


The DM might just simply want to draw more attention to the major races if the setting for storyline reasons.

There's lots of reasons to exclude something and at the end if the day the DMs the boss.

Ideally be upfront where you can or gave a list to what you can play. Next DM I meet who allows Aarakocra will be the first. I vetoed an Aven and Yuan Ti request recently.

Yeah, there may be reasons to say no. I get that. But there are also reasons to say yes.

I think that a lot of the time, people say no out of reflex, but if they paused for a moment and gave it some thought, maybe there’d not just be a way to say yes, but that it may lead to something interesting.

Like the hidden menace race idea you mention.....maybe it was drow, but a PC wanted to be a drow. Now, they could easily be from some other drow culture, but maybe it’s already been established that there’s only one drow culture in this world. But then the DM thinks....what if the hidden menace race isn’t the drow, but is instead some new enemy? And maybe they’re in the underdark and they’re so horrible, drow are fleeing to the surface. And then the campaign has a hidden enemy that the players actually aren’t familiar with and the player gets what he wants.