D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Hussar]

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I do not understand this sentiment. I don't buy everything Wizards releases. I look at a new release and decide whether that's up my alley or not (usually not). Having them make more books would give them more opportunities to make a book I do want.

Having them sell that many books means that there is material smeared across a dozen or more books that I now have to track because my fuve players go ahead and buy two books each and want to use this spell from that book or this other bit from that other book.

Never minding that I now have to hunt through a bunch of books to find the bits I want to use.

I remember those days.

I’m never going back to that. The primary reason I’ve never touched Pathfinder is the release rate. Just too overwhelming.

 

[Parmandur]

We cross-posted again!

I agree about the "differences". They're made up now; they're not grounded in published material or the play it supports/leads to.

Or they're a metaphor for the difference between FR metaplot-ish play and GH "old school"-ish play (the inverted commas are deliberate there).

Yeah, I think it is just part of the current brand-building theybare doing, to showcase that multiple styles can be represented by the same rules. However, it seems likely to me that part of the art rhey will showcase here will ne maps...and some names of vital characters...basically enough to play in these Settings. And I wouldn't be shocked if the Known World map ended up in a more game centered product sooner or later (like an anthology similar to Quests from the Infinite Staircase that uses the X Modules as source material.

 

[pemerton]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Known World map ended up in a more game centered product sooner or later (like an anthology similar to Quests from the Infinite Staircase that uses the X Modules as source material.

I just looked up Quests from the Infinite Staircase, and this WotC site is the first thing that popped up in Google:

Quests from the Infinite Staircase Digital + Physical Bundle | D&D

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dndstore.wizards.com

Here's the blurb:

6 remastered classic adventures from D&D’s history: The Lost City, When a Star Falls, Beyond the Crystal Cave, Pharaoh, The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, and Expeditions to the Barrier Peaks.​

So one thing I notice is that "Expedition" has become "Expeditions" - I'm guessing that's an error, but it's a bit weird that WotC can't afford proper copy-editing on their shopfront.

Another thing I notice is that this is a bit of a mix of adventures. Pharaoh, Lost Caverns and Expedition are all hard-core dungeon crawls. Beyond the Crystal Cave is notorious for the mis-match between scenario and system, and I think even in 5e will be tricky to pull off. The Lost City has an explanatory element that is different from the others. When A Star Falls I've heard of, but don't know (unlike the others) - being a UK modules I'm going to speculate that it is also different from the first three dungeon-crawlers.

Anyway, when I think of an X-based anthology I think of some challenges in presenting X1 in a non-racist way, and some challenges in presenting X2 in a non-absurd way - but maybe it could be done?

 

[Parmandur]

I just looked up Quests from the Infinite Staircase, and this WotC site is the first thing that popped up in Google:

Quests from the Infinite Staircase Digital + Physical Bundle | D&D

.

dndstore.wizards.com

Here's the blurb:

6 remastered classic adventures from D&D’s history: The Lost City, When a Star Falls, Beyond the Crystal Cave, Pharaoh, The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, and Expeditions to the Barrier Peaks.​

So one thing I notice is that "Expedition" has become "Expeditions" - I'm guessing that's an error, but it's a bit weird that WotC can't afford proper copy-editing on their shopfront.

Another thing I notice is that this is a bit of a mix of adventures. Pharaoh, Lost Caverns and Expedition are all hard-core dungeon crawls. Beyond the Crystal Cave is notorious for the mis-match between scenario and system, and I think even in 5e will be tricky to pull off. The Lost City has an explanatory element that is different from the others. When A Star Falls I've heard of, but don't know (unlike the others) - being a UK modules I'm going to speculate that it is also different from the first three dungeon-crawlers.

Anyway, when I think of an X-based anthology I think of some challenges in presenting X1 in a non-racist way, and some challenges in presenting X2 in a non-absurd way - but maybe it could be done?

One of the things they are doing with this upcoming book, as opposed to prior classic re-releases for 5E, is that they are substantially rewriting these. For example, the spaceship in Barrier Peaks has fewer floors that have smaller Floorplan with less empty space, and they are adding an antagonist on the ship.

So, it does seem to me to be possible to take the raw material of those nautical X modules that outlined the Known World and rewrite them for modern sensibilities.

 

[pemerton]

One of the things they are doing with this upcoming book, as opposed to prior classic re-releases for 5E, is that they are substantially rewriting these. For example, the spaceship in Barrier Peaks has fewer floors that have smaller Floorplan with less empty space, and they are adding an antagonist on the ship.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info!

If they're prepared to rewrite, then that does create more possibility of taking some nice ideas/motifs but cutting the crud!

 

[SteveC]

That seems to be a very narrow definition to be carrying the weight of "WoTC has no process".

Yeah, they make stand-alone adventures that don't necessarily tie in with each other... that's not a bad thing. In fact, it could be an incredibly good thing, because if you are telling me that Paizo has created multiple, multi-book lines of interconnected adventures... congrats, you've killed any interest I have in trying to get a Paizo adventure.

This gets a big sigh out of me. Paizo, as a company, is based on adventures and subscriptions. They have multi-year plans for material they will release about the lore of the world over that time, as well as new rulebooks they will produce.

As a result, they plan adventures to coincide with those other books, to lead up to or follow them and generate interest. There's no need to pick up multiple books to run a Paizo adventure path. You can pick up the book, read it, and run it. And if you're interested in the part of the world it's set in, you can pick up a book about it. The adventure can be run just with the book.

What is WotC's similar plan? In the past, they've had plans for books on different character options or parts of the adventuring world planned out, and you similarly had an adventure to go with that. They aren't giving off any signals at all about that.

And moreso, there is little if any consistency within actual chapters of a single adventure. Morrus said that this has gotten better, and I trust him, so I hope that part is getting better.

What WotC does not give off, to me anyway, is a semblance that there's a development cycle plan overall for the game. Yes, we are going to have a staggered release schedule that will likely be fairly well organized, but after that? Don't know. It sounds like that's not a concern for you, so enjoy it. For me? I'd prefer to know what's coming and for things to seem like they're organized. Right now, it's like the game is herding cats. It seems like this is really about "how do you feel WotC is shepherding the game right now?" For me, I have some issues. I hope things get straightened out with the launch. We'll see, I guess.

 

[Parmandur]

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info!

If they're prepared to rewrite, then that does create more possibility of taking some nice ideas/motifs but cutting the crud!

Yeah, Justice Armin has dpme some brief overviews of the changes they are making: lots of changes in regards to gender and race issues, by the sound of it, too, like the warrior societies in the Loat City.

 

[MichaelSomething]

This gets a big sigh out of me. Paizo, as a company, is based on adventures and subscriptions. They have multi-year plans for material they will release about the lore of the world over that time, as well as new rulebooks they will produce.

As a result, they plan adventures to coincide with those other books, to lead up to or follow them and generate interest. There's no need to pick up multiple books to run a Paizo adventure path. You can pick up the book, read it, and run it. And if you're interested in the part of the world it's set in, you can pick up a book about it. The adventure can be run just with the book.

What is WotC's similar plan? In the past, they've had plans for books on different character options or parts of the adventuring world planned out, and you similarly had an adventure to go with that. They aren't giving off any signals at all about that.

And moreso, there is little if any consistency within actual chapters of a single adventure. Morrus said that this has gotten better, and I trust him, so I hope that part is getting better.

What WotC does not give off, to me anyway, is a semblance that there's a development cycle plan overall for the game. Yes, we are going to have a staggered release schedule that will likely be fairly well organized, but after that? Don't know. It sounds like that's not a concern for you, so enjoy it. For me? I'd prefer to know what's coming and for things to seem like they're organized. Right now, it's like the game is herding cats. It seems like this is really about "how do you feel WotC is shepherding the game right now?" For me, I have some issues. I hope things get straightened out with the launch. We'll see, I guess.

This is great. The chaos will favor the strongest and most empowered DMs! Exactly how Gygax intended.

 

[SteveC]

This is great. The chaos will favor the strongest and most empowered DMs! Exactly how Gygax intended.

I somehow think this is all making Tharizdun stronger somehow.

 

[Garmel]

@pemerton
For more details from the announcement here is the rable of contents, note particularly the amount of pages for each Prime Material Setting:

View attachment 367472

And a paragraph in-character as Mordenkainen, comparing Greyhawk with the Forgotten Realms and Mystara:


View attachment 367473

That explains why magic isn't as prevalent on Oerth as on Toril.