D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[TiQuinn]

In the 1990s I was using GH material that referred to the Horned Society taking over the Shield Lands (the City of GH boxed set) and other GH material that just ignored those events even though set later in the imaginary timeline (the post-GH Wars stuff). I just picked and chose what I wanted to use. It's not hard!

This! Greyhawk Wars and From the Ashes imagined the countries of the setting actually going to war, before settling into a stalemate, which seemed to me as a pretty logical extension of the way the setting was originally presented. I thought it also accomplished a lot in removing some of the nations that didn’t seem to have a purpose besides be generic Euro country number 15.

 

[Parmandur]

This! Greyhawk Wars and From the Ashes imagined the countries of the setting actually going to war, before settling into a stalemate, which seemed to me as a pretty logical extension of the way the setting was originally presented. I thought it also accomplished a lot in removing some of the nations that didn’t seem to have a purpose besides be generic Euro country number 15.

A lot of the nations summarily removed so they could imitate the FR (and a pale imitation at that) removed a lot of the subgenre possibilities and directly vontributo making Greyhswk feel like a less-good Forgotten Realms.

I have oddly strong feelings about this considering I didn't learn about unti 25 years later ..

 

[TiQuinn]

A lot of the nations summarily removed so they could imitate the FR (and a pale imitation at that) removed a lot of the subgenre possibilities and directly vontributo making Greyhswk feel like a less-good Forgotten Realms.

I have oddly strong feelings about this considering I didn't learn about unti 25 years later ..

Can you give me an example? For instance, i remember countries like Almor or Tenh and thinking the descriptions of them in the original folio/box set didn’t provide a lot of information to distinguish them. They were basically client states to the Great Kingdom, but there was no life to them. Nothing I felt to hang a creative hat onto. What subgenres were you seeing in some of these smaller countries that disappeared?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Why should they? What will this add? This is a game where people should be doing this themselves, either with their own world building or their take on an existing template.

Because demonstration is an excellent way to teach others how to do something. A new setting, where the book itself walks through its creation, would empower DMs by showing them even as it tells them.

But personally, I don't think new is strictly necessary. You can do this with old settings too, if you're reinventing them. The only meaningful difference I can see is that, with a new setting, everyone is new to it, so they kinda have to read about it to know what it is and contains.

I do not believe that most DMs want or need a setting at most they need a map, preferably need an evocative map.

I find it difficult to relate to or care about a map alone. For words to have meaning and names to have power, we must be brought into their home, their world, their time. A map alone does not do that. It leaves me just sort of staring. I can, eventually, get something built up that makes use of that map. But it would be easier, faster, and more productive if I had more to work with, and the map is not that useful once I have that "more."

It is the lore nerds that want settings and their implied lore and would be better served with a novel line or TV series.

All I can say is, things like the Dawn War, the tragedy of Arkhosia and Bael Turath, and the loss of Cendriane stick with me far better than any map could. A map has its uses. It doesn't tell me why I should care about any of these places, nor what is(/was) happening in any of them.

 

[AstroCat]

What I'd personally would enjoy is a recap of GH based mostly around the 1983 version and some 5e mechanical tables/charts/character stat blocks in 5e. I'd want all the characters, races feel and flavor exactly as it was before, not updated for "younger/modern" or whatever you want to call it. And then adding some select examples of expanded content based on 83 to now. And, perhaps like one example mini adventure capturing the style and flavor of GH with 6e mechanics.

I don't expect or want a full new GH campaign setting, I got 83 for that. For me, that's all I want... no way in heck that's what is going to happen. I have a feeling 6e GH is going to be something I end up 100% ignoring because of all the updates and changes. It is very possible GH 6e will be completely unrecognizable compared to 83 GH.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I'd want all the characters, races feel and flavor exactly as it was before,

So, 1st edition rules then.

not updated for "younger/modern" or whatever you want to call it.

It's not updating for "younger/modern" it's updated for "different rules".

no way in heck that's what is going to happen.

Obviously, so why go on about it?

all the updates and changes.

All? It's one chapter. There won't be room for "updates and changes" just a few names and places.

 

[Parmandur]

Can you give me an example? For instance, i remember countries like Almor or Tenh and thinking the descriptions of them in the original folio/box set didn’t provide a lot of information to distinguish them. They were basically client states to the Great Kingdom, but there was no life to them. Nothing I felt to hang a creative hat onto. What subgenres were you seeing in some of these smaller countries that disappeared?

One interesting bit is the alignment map from the boxed set (not sure of this was in the Folio). Almor is specifically the island of Good between the Evil of the Great Kingdom amd the Lawful Neutraiof Nyrlond:

The two big examples I would point to of distinveness being lost is the Horned Soxiety, which provided a Check on Iuz:

Like everything else, Tenh requires work from the DM to flesh out, but it has the distinction of being the only advanced Flan state in the Flannaes:

And it is a really particular shame that the Rovers of the Barrens were eliminated, as they provide a very distinctive flavor and another check on Iuz:

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Because demonstration is an excellent way to teach others how to do something. A new setting, where the book itself walks through its creation, would empower DMs by showing them even as it tells them.

But personally, I don't think new is strictly necessary. You can do this with old settings too, if you're reinventing them. The only meaningful difference I can see is that, with a new setting, everyone is new to it, so they kinda have to read about it to know what it is and contains.


I find it difficult to relate to or care about a map alone. For words to have meaning and names to have power, we must be brought into their home, their world, their time. A map alone does not do that. It leaves me just sort of staring. I can, eventually, get something built up that makes use of that map. But it would be easier, faster, and more productive if I had more to work with, and the map is not that useful once I have that "more."


All I can say is, things like the Dawn War, the tragedy of Arkhosia and Bael Turath, and the loss of Cendriane stick with me far better than any map could. A map has its uses. It doesn't tell me why I should care about any of these places, nor what is(/was) happening in any of them.

I was responding to another post. I do not really disagree with you post in any significant way and taking my post outside its context as a response and positioning it as advocacy is, in my opinion doing me a disservice.

 

[AstroCat]

So, 1st edition rules then.

Well 1st edition flavor, totally, yeah I'd want this.

It's not updating for "younger/modern" it's updated for "different rules".

I'd want select mechanics applied, such as new stat blocks, travel rules, etc... while leaving the creative content (races, geo-politics, deities, notable characters, etc...) true to the 83 vision.

Obviously, so why go on about it?

Because it's fun to talk about d&d and games.

All? It's one chapter. There won't be room for "updates and changes" just a few names and places.

Just a brief summary of some key events, along a timeline. This has been done many times before.

 

[TiQuinn]

One interesting bit is the alignment map from the boxed set (not sure of this was in the Folio). Almor is specifically the island of Good between the Evil of the Great Kingdom amd the Lawful Neutraiof Nyrlond:

View attachment 363837
View attachment 363836

The two big examples I would point to of distinveness being lost is the Horned Soxiety, which provided a Check on Iuz:

View attachment 363838

Like everything else, Tenh requires work from the DM to flesh out, but it has the distinction of being the only advanced Flan state in the Flannaes:

View attachment 363840

And it is a really particular shame that the Rovers of the Barrens were eliminated, as they provide a very distinctive flavor and another check on Iuz:

View attachment 363839

One thing this reminds me is how gorgeously laid out that box set was. Love the stylized drop caps they used throughout the book.

Horned Society was cool but I also never felt like they needed a “country”. I always felt they functioned so much better as a cult.