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Greyhawk setting material

MockingBird

Explorer
Well GoS worked on me and got me interested in Greyhawk. I'd say the test was successful from my point of view. I didnt feel like the addition of nonhuman races was too obligatory. They added one Tiefling in the town and her profession of "rare item" dealer fit rather well IMO.

Speaking of rare items. Is Greyhawk magic item heavy? I like that 5e toned this down a lot. I also like to award magic items and the rare occasions seem to make the item more special to my players. The list of magic items in GoS is rather slim and I like that. Just curious how it was setup when the setting was "the setting".
 

David Howery

Adventurer
But, it's 2019 now. We've had thirty plus years of stuff adding to Greyhawk. I'd rather not eject all that development.
If I got back into gaming and was DM of a WoG game, I still wouldn't want to include the changes from the Greyhawk Wars. I really didn't care for all the stuff that went on in that one.... Iuz's space filling empire, destroying several neat cultures 'because', the Scarlet Brotherhood being out in the open, etc. I'd like to think you could add some new/fanzine stuff without such drastic changes...
 

Zardnaar

Adventurer
Go back in time and tell Gygax that.
It's his world. I don't think he would add a lot if modernism's.

He would bend the genre but I don't see him adding a lot of player option races.

As I said if GH is anything goes why play it over FR?

What's the hook is the Greyhawk pantheon and kingdoms that compelling?
Well GoS worked on me and got me interested in Greyhawk. I'd say the test was successful from my point of view. I didnt feel like the addition of nonhuman races was too obligatory. They added one Tiefling in the town and her profession of "rare item" dealer fit rather well IMO.

Speaking of rare items. Is Greyhawk magic item heavy? I like that 5e toned this down a lot. I also like to award magic items and the rare occasions seem to make the item more special to my players. The list of magic items in GoS is rather slim and I like that. Just curious how it was setup when the setting was "the setting".
Generous by modern standards but you couldn't buy them, but you could sell them.

That might be more OSR than Greyhawk in particular.
 

Coroc

Explorer
greyhawk the blue 1983 box and material around it is very magic item heavy. I also do not get how people always say ghk is sword and sorcery whereas fr is high fantasy.
in the 1e/2e. Material you find things like:
automatons (several types)
permanent wall of fire as a heating
and so on.
also concerning magic
FR got elminster and khelben and the harpells.

but ghk got the circle of eight Tasha quaal philidor etc. So not a bit less epic wizardry.
 

Azzy

Cyclone Ranger
It's his world. I don't think he would add a lot if modernism's.
That's your impression, not a fact.

He would bend the genre but I don't see him adding a lot of player option races.
Tell that to 1e's Unearthed Arcana.

As I said if GH is anything goes why play it over FR?

What's the hook is the Greyhawk pantheon and kingdoms that compelling?
If not have a few PC races is the only thing that makes GH different from the FR to you, then maybe you're missing a lot of the goodness that's in the setting.
 

Zardnaar

Adventurer
That's your impression, not a fact.



Tell that to 1e's Unearthed Arcana.



If not have a few PC races is the only thing that makes GH different from the FR to you, then maybe you're missing a lot of the goodness that's in the setting.
By 1985 Gary had sod all to do with D&D.

TSR slapped his name on ToEE, OA and UA he wrote very little. UA was culled from Dragon articles.

Things with Gary's name on it sells better than no Gary. IIRC Cook wrote most if OA, Mentzer ToEE.
 

Azzy

Cyclone Ranger
By 1985 Gary had sod all to do with D&D.

TSR slapped his name on ToEE, OA and UA he wrote very little. UA was culled from Dragon articles.

Things with Gary's name on it sells better than no Gary. IIRC Cook wrote most if OA, Mentzer ToEE.
UA was mostly Gary's work.
 

Zardnaar

Adventurer
Quality is irrelevant to the argument, that's just goalpost moving.
Seems to be fairly good evidence of most not being better. I prefer running GH more minimalistic and humanocentric.

It's like a good chocolate cake vs a gateau. Gateaus not such a great idea when you vomit it up though, death by chocolate.

Main point is it's a bit much. Beats me why people want the same stuff in FR, GH, Darksun, Nerath etc.
 

Hussar

Legend
The notion of local vs epic fantasy is a pretty solid difference between FR and Greyhawk. Looking at the modules, by and large, in Greyhawk, you have pretty local problems being solved by mercenary PC's. Forgotten Realms is a lot more epic in scope - cast of thousands, large, sprawling events, that sort of thing.

But the fantasy part isn't what differentiates the settings. Greyhawk featured some pretty gonzo stuff. Sure, the original PC's in Gygax' crew were largely human or demi-human, but, again, that was a reflection of the times. It was the mid-70's. 99% of the stranger races hadn't even been thought of. I'm not interested in playing D&D with all the options turned off. I like the options.

And, really, since I mostly got back into Greyhawk with Paizohawk, the destruction of cultures in the north don't really faze me. I just don't care since I never played there and never ran anything in that area. Having the Scarlet Bros in the open makes it a lot more interesting when you're centered around the Azure Sea and southwards.
 

Paul Farquhar

Adventurer
The issue with Greyhawk is because it was the original default setting for all published models it accreted lots of content created by lots of different authors with lots of different visions (Saltmarsh being dumped in Keoland is a prime example). As such, it became a muddy mess.

No reason you can't strip it back to something more Gygaxian if you want, but there is no "One True Greyhawk", it's whatever you want to make of it.
 

Zardnaar

Adventurer
Settings (D&D or otherwise) are defined as much by what isn't present as by what is.
Depends on the setting. Krynn and Darksun don't have a lot if phb races back when they were around.

Greyhawk was Humanocentric so was Ravenloft.

If you're cutting races to fit new ones in kind of implies all races don't have to be there.

The main reason more than a few people are recommending the 1983 set is.

1. It's good/bare boned.
2. Avoids a lot of the metaplot that plagues old campaign settings.

They can add bits and pieces into it, Vecna for example but it also makes things easier for new players.

Even 4E Darksun had the sense to ignore a lot of 2E metaplot. TSR literally blew up every world they had with realms shaking events or the equivalent.

Greyhawk Wars, Grand Conjunction, Prism Pentad, second cataclysm, second inhuman war etc.

We already have FR kitchen sink, Mearls gets GH though from the sounds of it.

I expect some new stuff,I don't think they'll go to overboard maybe add Dragonborn is about as exotic as I expect just to cover the phb, Drow already exist, Tieflings make sense based on old lore, Dragonborn not so much one way or another.
 
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qstor

Adventurer
So I just picked up Ghost of Saltmarsh and I have only read the first chapter but have scanned it over many times. I'm really enjoying the write up on Saltmarsh. I've always played and ran games in FR and have setting material for that setting (old grey box). My question is, what is a good start for Greyhawk material. I wish to learn more about the setting. I DM 5e but if I'm not mistaken this setting never really got an update through the editions did it? Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
I'd get the '83 boxed set AND the Living Greyhawk Gazetter depending on how much money you want to spend and then
Greyhawk the adventure begins
 

Parmandur

Legend
Ghosts of Saltmarsh rolls back the metaplot to Year One, but Mearls included a bunch of stuff from Living Greyhawk as hooks on the regional Gazeeter. I reckon this is what they will do with any further products.
 
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Ralif Redhammer

Adventurer
So, the Tirapheg and Umpleby? I'd honestly love to see a Greyhawk sourcebook with a mini-Fiend Folio in the back. We've seen a number of them appear, but there's still a ton to mine from.

As for player options, I could see some backgrounds being included. A thief-acrobat Rogue subclass. Some new and updated spells from Tenser, Mordenkainen, and Melf would be pretty cool. Not sure anyone would get excited about a Valley Elf subrace, though. The rest of the stuff I'd associate with Greyhawk has already been absorbed into D&D's DNA by now.

What I would expect from a 5E Greyhawk setting book:
3. Monsters, particularly any 1E monsters that haven't made it into a book by this time, no matter how weird.
I can't think what player options Greyhawk might ask for...
 

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