Greyhawk Setting Ressurected? Sorta Kinda..

[DDK]

Can I say horse here? It that considered a flame? Will it get me in trouble? Oh well, I have to call it as I see it. Evasion b=ecause the claim you make appears spurious in the extreme.

Yes you can say it. And in all liklihood, not only won't it get you into trouble, it will be entirely overlooked.

But it's people like you that make me regret associating myself with any of my writer friends. See, it really doesn't matter if I tell you who they are or not, because if I do, you'll just say, "Horsedoodooh!" and if I don't, you'll just say, "Horsedoodooh!" So really, I shouldn't have said anything at all, however your attitude annoyed me and I let this get to me and thus let my guard slip.

So you see, at the end of the day, it matters little as to whether I'm telling the truth or not. Like I said, I know I know who I know, and that's all you need to know.

Originally posted by Col_Pladoh
So you post to irritate people? Does it amuse you to be rude and get reactions from those who read your psots? I am responding here because someone emailed me about this thread, and I am beginning to regret wasting my time now...

I wasn't trying to be irritating. I also don't feel I was being rude, or am being rude now, despite being flamed by you repeatedly.

Originally posted by Col_Pladoh
Fact is, though I should be more gentle with some folks. Anyone who has a track record of amateur writing and "knows" experienced authors from being online with them is clearly not worthy of jousting with.

I treasure the friendships I've developed online. I just recently got back into contact with several people I used to spend hours online with everyday, some of whom are the writers I'm referring to. I love them as much as I love any friend, online or off.

I would wager that a lot of writer/publisher relationships in the RPG industry are completely online based.

Obviously you consider online relationships to be lesser than 'real life' ones.

Originally posted by Col_Pladoh
Right you are. I do not love it now, as it has become.

--

Originally posted by Col_Pladoh
I have not read most, let alone all, of the material you mention, so how could I possibly have an opinion regarding it?

Which one is it?

Originally posted by Col_Pladoh
That should not matter to those who do, and that there are persons who like it now is no matter to me.

And:

Originally posted by Col_Pladoh
What actually does bother me, though, is that I really appreciate fans as fellow gamers--not as "fans."

Yes. As you've made clear in the past, you really don't care for the fans.

Signing a few things and responding in a thread in which everybody praises you is not respecting the fans or appreciating them.

Which is why I said the following and stand by it:

Originally posted by Fourecks
Yeah, great. Get the people who care more about their wallet than the fans or the setting.

 

[Sniktch]

Against my better judgement

While I'm enjoying the flame war (as I see it) from the sidelines, I'm posting here against my better judgement. Must have failed a Will save

While Gary is taking great pride in his work and experience, I don't believe this is hubris. He's not complaining to be one of the best writers in the world, only one of the most experienced. I have a shelf full of books next to my computer test that can attest to that. If I had as many published works with my name on them I'd be proud, too, and rightfully so. I'm really not sure why he's still posting here, as this thread ran off the tracks a long time ago, but it has been fun to watch.

Yes, I'll admit I'm one of the 'old guard' and that the name Gygax holds a little mystique for me, but I'm not a sycophant. While I have greatly enjoyed his works and derived countless hours of entertainment from them, I'm not going to tell you he's Nabokov or Shakespeare (my personal favorites), but he has produced an enormous amount of material. And I don't credit him for spawning the whole hobby; personally, I think it all spawned from Wells and Little Wars.

Oh, and as an aspiring writer with a great amount of material but very few published articles, I'd say creation is great, creation is wonderful, but I'll take the check, please

And feel free to get angry with me. I'm sure my feelings won't be hurt and I'll probably find it as amusing as I do the rest of this thread. But try to find something constructive to talk about, OK?

 

[Old Fezziwig]

Re: Against my better judgement

Originally posted by Fourecks
Signing a few things and responding in a thread in which everybody praises you is not respecting the fans or appreciating them.

I'm curious, though, what would you have him do? What would be respecting and/or appreciating the fans? I mean, yes, they're small gestures (signing things and responding to threads), but I think they do count for something, if for no other reason than they're acknowledgements of the fans. Just my opinion.

oh, and on another note,

Nabokov and Shakespeare are my favorites, too. Good deal, Sniktch. And I'm not sure anyone will ever be Nabokov or Shakespeare again — two truly unique talents. *steps away from the hijack*

Best,
tKL

 

[Melan]

Well, I guess he could worship us, the fans, and, well, how about asking us humbly to sign his rulebooks at cons?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It's important because that's where I'm coming from. I'm a fan.

I've delved into the fan community, albeit only recently, and I've seen how much these people care about the setting through their devotion, creativity and even argumentativeness.

To me, therefore, the setting is 'ours'. Not ours in a copyright sense, but ours in the sense that we contribute to it and keep it viable as a setting through our fandom.

Gary said that if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be contributing to this thread. I say in return, that if it wasn't for the fans, neither would he.


Good! That just proves that I'm trying NOT to be combatative! I'm not arguing just for the sake of argument (which is unusual for me, I'll admit). I'm arguing because this is something I care about and want answers to.


Well, I disagree. I've been actively pursuing writing as a hobby for many years and so have involved myself in many areas of the industry. Admittedly, a lot of my friends in this arena have been met through chatrooms and online forums such as this one, but I don't feel that illegitimizes the relationship. I've had many mentors and many friends in this industry, some of whom I don't keep in contact with, others of whom I'm more interested in being friends with than having them as 'contacts'. Too many people, I feel, associate themselves with great people in an effort to get some of that greatness rubbing off on them. I'd rather make my own greatness. I know I know who I know, and that's all I feel you need to know

And at the end of the day, if you feel I'm just posing, then what's one more person who thinks I'm an ass on a list that's already a mile long?

The thing is, why bother to bring it up unless one wants to substantiate the claim? The first natural reaction of any human being when confronted with the statement that one knows people "in the know" is to ask "Who?" Why should anyone care that, for example, I know anyone involved in any given industry if I won't say who it is? There is no point in my bringing it up if I won't substantiate it, because there is no frame of reference to work with. Besides, if you're going to call Gary, or anyone, onto the carpet, you should be ready to do some answering yourself. Otherwise why should anyone engage in the conversation?

 

[Orcus]

Boy, this thread shure blew up.

I hope this isnt a foreshadowning of the bickering that could surround the HM version of GH. I'd sorely like to see that product come to fruition.

But I guess I'm not optimistic.

Clark

 

[MerricB]

Eep! Fourecks, calm down! Please! You're giving Australian Greyhawk fans a bad name! (If you'd like to e-mail me privately, go ahead - a couple of things you bring up on this thread could do with some private discussion before you resume here).

With regard to one of Gary's points:

In regard to payment for creative work, as I see it, many game publishers are taking advantage of creative talent by not adaquately compensating them for their work. As it stands, all I ask is what regular SF & F book authors get for their work--and that isn't Harlan Ellison's $1 per word by a long shot Gaming is sorely in need of a guild for creative persons, something akin to the SFWA organization.

I'm glad to hear it, Gary!

Frankly, I'm not a professional game designer for many reasons (deadlines, la la la!) but I often feel that a lot of RPG products are underpriced for the effort that goes into producing them, and the limited market that they are sold to.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Boy, this thread shure blew up.

I hope this isnt a foreshadowning of the bickering that could surround the HM version of GH. I'd sorely like to see that product come to fruition.

But I guess I'm not optimistic.

This is nothing compared to the bickering that will erupt if it's ever finished, Clark.

Nor am I optimistic. Gary made a big mistake with Greyhawk: he designed it as a world that people could alter for their own needs. Unfortunately, people took him at his word, and thus, about twenty-three years later, we have millions of different versions of Greyhawk.

Gary, learn from this: ONLY CREATE ONE CANONICAL VERSION THAT ONLY YOU CAN WRITE IN!!! Doing it any other way just spawns arguments.

Cheers!

 

[DDK]

The thing is, why bother to bring it up unless one wants to substantiate the claim?

You're right. Consider the initial argument retracted.

 

[Orcus]

I posted on the Kenzer boards stating my hope that people can put down their swords (by the way, I dont mean Gary, I mean the rather rabid fans, aka Gene and others) and work together to make this happen. This seems like a rare opportunity for this to happen and I would hate to think fan squabbles would ruin the chance. I wich Dave Kenzer the best of luck getting a team together. I hope he doesnt try to please everyone, which will be impossible.

Clark