Greyhawk Setting Ressurected? Sorta Kinda..
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ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Fourecks said:
I honestly don't see that. What was being talked about was proper compensation for one's work. I did not read "mine mine mine" into it. One can create a campaign setting, wish to be compensated for it, and still intend for the fans to use it as they will. These aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Fourecks said:
I'm not sure why this distinction is important to you. Gary has stated many times, including on these boards (and he's addressed far more combative posters than you, believe me), his thoughts concerning the way Greyhawk (and D&D) was handled after it left his control. If he feels proprietary towards them, that seems only natural. He created them. Why is this such a sticking point?
I will also say, with no disrespect intended, that to talk about knowing more experienced writers, and then to say you don't feel the necessity to back up the statement, sounds like a cop-out. If you expect Gary to answer your questions as straightforwardly as possible, then the same should be expected of you.
Col_Pladoh
Gary Gygax
Re: Re: Re: Re: FWIW
Actually, you are reading more into the words that id there. When I flame, you'll know it. Something like: "OI do not suffer fools lightly," is the norm.
Or merely a light and bantering pronoun. No matter, in all.
Right you are. I do not love it now, as it has become. That should not matter to those who do, and that there are persons who like it now is no matter to me.
There a few, but not many, and none in hobby gaming.
Can I say horse
here? It that considered a flame? Will it get me in trouble? Oh well, I have to call it as I see it. Evasion b=ecause the claim you make appears spurious in the extreme.
So you know major publishers? I can relate to that, having been contacted by many, and having called upon many myself. I also was the one who arranged the first book trade distribution of game products through a major publsiher Random House, and I have a good friend who is a literary agent in NYC.
That sort of chest thumping aside, how do you suppose I have had my various works published. A fair bit of experience there and with computer game companies as well. As you can not knowwhat experience I have had, how can you possibly assert you know persons with more than I have?
So that engendered my comment in a previous post regarding my starting this whole hobby. That is some level of experiencen not to mention I was involved in publishing before that, back in the late 1960s.
And thus the earlier comment regarding what falls out of the back end of a horse.
So you post to irritate people? Does it amuse you to be rude and get reactions from those who read your psots? I am responding here because someone emailed me about this thread, and I am beginning to regret wasting my time now...
Now there's some circular illogic. I scoff. If what you claim is so, cite the source. Lots of silly rumors circulate amongst gossipy persons on the internet. These mean nothing.
That it is a "fact" has not been established by your assertions, so far absolutely baseless outside your own claim. I might as baselessly claim you were mentally derranged, "because I have nte made it up" and someone else has that "understanding." Your evasiveness here might seem to support such contention. Of course I am not suggesting anything of the sort, but the merits of what I noted are of the same worth as those you cite.
As for David Kenzer, he might be a little bitter about his offer falling short, eh? He didn't come close to what other game publsihers have found as equitable and reasonable in regard to contract publishing terms. He knows what he can manage for his publishing operation, but that does not mean it is adaquate. He also demanded ownership of the rights to the work to be created, and that is quite unacceptable to any knowledgeable author not doing a derrivative work, one for hire.
You seem intent on reading into my statements what isn't there. I have said nothing of the sort. I have not read most, let alone all, of the material you mention, so how could I possibly have an opinion regarding it? I have said that I do not like the direction that was taken with the world setting after it was acquired by TSR. Because of that, I have no particular interest it it.
Cheerio,
Gary
Fourecks said:
Actually, you are reading more into the words that id there. When I flame, you'll know it. Something like: "OI do not suffer fools lightly," is the norm.
Or merely a light and bantering pronoun. No matter, in all.
Right you are. I do not love it now, as it has become. That should not matter to those who do, and that there are persons who like it now is no matter to me.
There a few, but not many, and none in hobby gaming.
Can I say horse
here? It that considered a flame? Will it get me in trouble? Oh well, I have to call it as I see it. Evasion b=ecause the claim you make appears spurious in the extreme.So you know major publishers? I can relate to that, having been contacted by many, and having called upon many myself. I also was the one who arranged the first book trade distribution of game products through a major publsiher Random House, and I have a good friend who is a literary agent in NYC.
That sort of chest thumping aside, how do you suppose I have had my various works published. A fair bit of experience there and with computer game companies as well. As you can not knowwhat experience I have had, how can you possibly assert you know persons with more than I have?
So that engendered my comment in a previous post regarding my starting this whole hobby. That is some level of experiencen not to mention I was involved in publishing before that, back in the late 1960s.
And thus the earlier comment regarding what falls out of the back end of a horse.
So you post to irritate people? Does it amuse you to be rude and get reactions from those who read your psots? I am responding here because someone emailed me about this thread, and I am beginning to regret wasting my time now...
Now there's some circular illogic. I scoff. If what you claim is so, cite the source. Lots of silly rumors circulate amongst gossipy persons on the internet. These mean nothing.
That it is a "fact" has not been established by your assertions, so far absolutely baseless outside your own claim. I might as baselessly claim you were mentally derranged, "because I have nte made it up" and someone else has that "understanding." Your evasiveness here might seem to support such contention. Of course I am not suggesting anything of the sort, but the merits of what I noted are of the same worth as those you cite.
As for David Kenzer, he might be a little bitter about his offer falling short, eh? He didn't come close to what other game publsihers have found as equitable and reasonable in regard to contract publishing terms. He knows what he can manage for his publishing operation, but that does not mean it is adaquate. He also demanded ownership of the rights to the work to be created, and that is quite unacceptable to any knowledgeable author not doing a derrivative work, one for hire.
You seem intent on reading into my statements what isn't there. I have said nothing of the sort. I have not read most, let alone all, of the material you mention, so how could I possibly have an opinion regarding it? I have said that I do not like the direction that was taken with the world setting after it was acquired by TSR. Because of that, I have no particular interest it it.
Cheerio,
Gary
Shard O'Glase
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re: FWIW
i fail to see your quote as proof of anything reguarding G.Gygax's rep. It's just as if not more likely the comment is a comment about Kenzerco's finances. They have repeatedly maintained they aren't a rich company. And further more it is unlikely they are stuipid enough to post dergatory comments about an author whose sevices they whish to procure even if just on a consulting level. If you want to prove someone has a bad rep, an ambiguous quote isn't the best way.
Fourecks said:
i fail to see your quote as proof of anything reguarding G.Gygax's rep. It's just as if not more likely the comment is a comment about Kenzerco's finances. They have repeatedly maintained they aren't a rich company. And further more it is unlikely they are stuipid enough to post dergatory comments about an author whose sevices they whish to procure even if just on a consulting level. If you want to prove someone has a bad rep, an ambiguous quote isn't the best way.
I've never been on the "Gary is a relic of the old guard" bandwagon before, but such a statement sickens me. A few? Only a few?
Regardless of what I want for a Greyhawk setting, Gary your comments today have been inflamatory and would be noted as such by other posters if you weren't who you are. You've posted flame bait after flame bait and although Fourecks might not be any more deserving, that doesn't justify the lack of civility in your own statements.
Regardless of bibliography, the sheer magnitude of ego demonstrated today has determined who I don't want writing a new Greyhawk setting or any other product I purchase for that matter.
It's important because that's where I'm coming from. I'm a fan.
I've delved into the fan community, albeit only recently, and I've seen how much these people care about the setting through their devotion, creativity and even argumentativeness.
To me, therefore, the setting is 'ours'. Not ours in a copyright sense, but ours in the sense that we contribute to it and keep it viable as a setting through our fandom.
Gary said that if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be contributing to this thread. I say in return, that if it wasn't for the fans, neither would he.
Good! That just proves that I'm trying NOT to be combatative! I'm not arguing just for the sake of argument (which is unusual for me, I'll admit). I'm arguing because this is something I care about and want answers to.
Well, I disagree. I've been actively pursuing writing as a hobby for many years and so have involved myself in many areas of the industry. Admittedly, a lot of my friends in this arena have been met through chatrooms and online forums such as this one, but I don't feel that illegitimizes the relationship. I've had many mentors and many friends in this industry, some of whom I don't keep in contact with, others of whom I'm more interested in being friends with than having them as 'contacts'. Too many people, I feel, associate themselves with great people in an effort to get some of that greatness rubbing off on them. I'd rather make my own greatness. I know I know who I know, and that's all I feel you need to know
And at the end of the day, if you feel I'm just posing, then what's one more person who thinks I'm an ass on a list that's already a mile long?
Col_Pladoh
Gary Gygax
Outlaw said:
Sorry to hear that, and i hope you manage a complete recovery.
But what is so preposterous, or sickening as you characterise it, about noting that there are but a few authors around with the experience I have? Is that a false claim? Who in gaming as had so many works published--and re-published--or with derrivatives taken from officially (or unofficially)? Of course i am quite proud, justly so, I believe, of my achievements, and if you don't agree too bad. I've put in over 30 years and my work has sold tens of millions of copies, has been translated into at least a dozen lanbguages, and brought a lot of fun and more to millions of people. Golly, you think I should display false modesty about such achievement? If so, all I can say is get a life.
There you said it: "if you weren't who you are." but because I am who I am do you suggest I should sit back and be nicey-nice to someone who is obviously looking for dispute. That ain;t gonna happen, because I am who I am. Outspoken and not prone to pull punches.
I refuse civility to the uncivil, you included.
Ego has nothing to do with facts. The facts are all I stated, but only in reply to someone asserting that he knew "many authors with more experience tham" I have. So I laid the cards on the table to have before all the record. I weary of those who haven't done anything creative, have no idea of the time and effort involved, taking cheap shots at what I have done. While I love games and gaming, spending years as a virtual recluse in order to produce the volumes of material I have gives me at least some bragging righs, I'll allow.
As for your not buying something I've written because you find my statements here offensive, that makes as much sense as your criticism of what I said in response to the irritating poster.
Then again, I can't fault you for that, actually, because I don't patronize some authors and performers because of their politics, so I am culpable of emotional reaction also.
Guess none of us are perfect, and not every trip to the plate results in a home run.
Cheerio,
Gary
Col_Pladoh
Gary Gygax
Caliban said:
Heh. Quite so.
Fact is, though I should be more gentle with some folks. Anyone who has a track record of amateur writing and "knows" experienced authors from being online with them is clearly not worthy of jousting with. That the fellow can't distinguish between one author and millions of fans is also troubling.
What actually does bother me, though, is that I really appreciate fans as fellow gamers--not as "fans." I go out of my way to answer email, board posts, sign books and give autographs whenever asked. I know very well that the support of fans is great. On the flip side, have you or anyone else ever met a fan who will continue to buy an work they don't like?
It's a two way street, but the author had better produce or else the fans will be gone. So the relationship isn't one in which the fan is giving all and the author nothing. Quite the contrary.Cheerio,
Gary
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