Grief over a review

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Personally i want my friends to be honest with me, even i public, if that means criticism, so be it. Not everyone is like me, so i can understand that other people might react in different ways. But it's inexcusible to react the way you have (just now and in the past), if you can't take critisism, don't ever read reviews of your products!

I personally find it a bit weak to throw it all on 'being human', take a bit of responsibility for your own actions. And 'we are what we are' is also an excuse imho opinion, we can all change if we really want.
 

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Thanks for coming here and clearing the air, Stuart. It makes me feel better about supporting the company - there's only one company out there I make a habit of avoiding, and since the reason is because they basically stink, that's no sacrifice at all. On the other hand, I want very much to support Bottled Imp, because the books you've done are so good. I own both LoN:Vampires and LoN:Liches, and they're great books. And after reading your post, I feel much better about buying Zombies.
 

Teneb said:
I have the nagging impression this besmirches my name somewhat and my integrity is shot, but what's done is done.[/url]

No, it doesn't. You showed a lot of class too.
 

Cergorach said:
I personally find it a bit weak to throw it all on 'being human', take a bit of responsibility for your own actions. And 'we are what we are' is also an excuse imho opinion, we can all change if we really want.

And sometimes you just gotta let things go, dude. I'm sure there's a million better things we could all be talking about here or doing elsewhere. :)
 

Stuart Renton

Hello

I just have read this thread and i just wanted to say something...

I know Stuart for some time now and he is Really a Great man, probably one of the best people i know and i really mean it, he has Good heart.

From what i understand here, i really don't think that this thread should have been made as it can really destory a company (and it Did, together with some other things), especially small companies like BIG.

Don't get me wrong here, i am not saying that he should gave his review 5/5 he can do what he thinks and he also can give it 1/5, But to come here to maybe the biggest forums about rpg's on the net and to give hints upon hints about something that was very personal between 2 people is wrong and things like this shouldn't be posted in here, it can only hurt people and after all of those hints it got out from the bag like a black cat that really wasn't in there!

As a personal note i want to say that i really respect Stuart Renton, to me he is one of the best people that i know in this world with a hugh heart and i realy think that his books are so special , even more then 99% of the books that are out there.

All i can say to you Stuart is...THANK YOU !!!

And if you will ever think on coming back, we will welcome you with open arms and opens hearts.
 
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Bottled Imp Games said:
..snip..

I knew the reviewer here was not going to give such a good review (he had previously informed me of such), so I suggested that he send it to me first. I guess I was guilty of judging him by my own standards, as although I didn’t expect a five star review, I know I would never post critically on the book of a friend or a colleague. Were I reviewing it, I would comment on the good (and indeed, I have done just that in several reviews)…

The LAST thing you want is to have someone close to you comment on your failings. There are three columns in the prestige classes in Zombies that have incorrect information in them. Believe me, no one is punishing themselves more than I am for that f*ck up. I absolutely hate getting stuff like that wrong.

...snip...

I would like to say that I don’t feel I in any way badgered or pressured the reviewer to retract his review. I merely said that I felt that on top of the other review, pointing out the holes was less than favorable and that it would be best if he removed it. It’s nearly impossible to put yourself in that situation, because, well, hearing bad things about your books is so unbelievably hurtful. I suppose I never developed a skin thick enough to deflect it.

...snip...

I would like to say to the reviewer that I said that if it was a toss up between a 4 and a 5 on a review and there were no halfway marks, that I would always round up for a friend. I’m not entirely sure how that got misconstrued, but I think that would be only reasonable for anyone to expect that from a friend. I would expect a lower mark from a professional reviewer, but from a colleague or writing partner, I think I’m allowed to be disappointed.


...snip...

I’d like to finish by saying that I think raising this issue here was extremely unfair, because this was a private issue and had nothing to do with anyone but the reviewer and myself.

...snip...

Stuart

First oof, let me say that I understand your emotion here, as I writer I too feel too attached to things at times. However, I must comment on a few things you said. Actually I think you are doing the people who read reviews a huge diservice here. A review is for the consumer, to help them make a fair and balanced decision on purchasing a product. If you agree to be a reviewers then you are agreeing to uphold certain ideals and honor by giving it a fair, unbiased, review. Or, at the least, openly claiming your bias so that the reader knows. By giving friends better marks than you would give anyone else you are breeching that compact between you and the reader. You are not giving them what a reviewer is supposed to give, honesty. You say that you would always round up for a friend, but you should not treat friends any differently than anyone else. In fact, most of my friends demand harder standards from me than from strangers because they know that I am doing it to truly *help* them and not just slander them. If I say something bad in a review then they know that it was honestly lacking and it was not just some guy having a bad day. *That,* sir, is what honor is all about.

I understand the hurt and the anguish of a bad review, lord knows I have gotten enough for my short stories and poetry, but as long as the bad review was honest, then it is for the best, ALWAYS, because it helps me grow. A 5/5 is almost a sacred reward, it is meant only for those creators who have truly gone above and beyond all expectations and pulled off something grand. Mistakes that could have been caught in one more round of editing do taint that overall picture. Now, understand, I am not getting on you for missing the tables, it is a human mistake and you have said, we are all human, but it does lessen the quality of the work. Now if you fixed that table and rereleased it (I know that may not be an option for you, just stating an example) then it may very well deserve a 5/5 and get one.

Also, you state airing your laundry, basically, on here was unfair. I hate to point this out but when you are in a business, very little about that business is private. The reviewer asked for help in handling a situation and came here. From what I have gathered he is not the only person to have this problem, whether warranted or not, and that takes it from a private issue to a public one. Not to mention that he wrote a public review. When you are in the business world you will find very little is "private" any longer and that bugs a lot of people, which makes them decide to not go public and for which I understand. I just want it known that I, for one, think that the reviewer was well within his right to bring this to the public eye. He did keep it tight to his chest for as long as it was prudent, which is a lot more than he was required to do. If this same thing had happened with a major magazine reviewer you would have seen the review reposted, along with your email and a long scathing column on it. Thsi reviewer did not do that and even defended your work at numerous points.

Just my two cents
 

Hi stuart,

Thanks for coming out and giving us another part of the story.

You trusted this person with playtesting and did not go with his findings about the problems he reported in that role. So when they still existed in the final version why were you hurt by his review? After all it was a review of all the good things the reviewer liked giving it a 4 but with the problems from the playtest keeping it from getting the coveted 5. But still a four out of five is not a bad review.

I know it is tough to put all the time, money, and effort in to a game comapny and then have others not like your product to the level you wish. That is the risk of the business you has a Game Company have entered. You have the passion for your product and your company that is what you need has a small business owner god knows it not for the money, glory or the super models. When it comes time to throw down for you comapny by all means throw down. But an honest review by the playtester is not the time.

Politics and games are very simular and has long has more people like your product then hate your product your business will be secure and prosper. So you can look inward from this incident and grow your comapny by deciding if playtestewr can later review finished product. Remeber Rome was not built in a day neither was it sacked in a day.

Strive for a better product each time and keep trying.
 

jaerdaph said:
And sometimes you just gotta let things go, dude. I'm sure there's a million better things we could all be talking about here or doing elsewhere. :)
Your probably right, it just got me pissed, for many reasons. But anyway, the problem is solved, i doubt we'll have any problem with future products...

@necropolis
Have you ever heard of the saying, actions speak louder then words?
 

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