Grognard view of One D&D?

haakon1

Adventurer
So what do we, the Older Edition community, think of One D&D?

My initial thoughts on a new edition are: Please don’t. With the exception of 3 & 5, the number of players in new editions has been smaller than the edition before - 50/50 chance that it hurts the long term prospects for the game. And new editions divide the community everytime it seems.

I’m not a 5e fan, but I’m hoping for their sake it‘s nearly unnoticeable like 3e to 3.5e.

I suspect WotC has absolutely no interest in Older Edition fans, so I don’t suspect it’ll bring us back into the fold (whichever Older Editions we prefer), but whatever One D&D is, I’ll buy the PHB and presumably play it occasionally with someone else DMing … and learn to convert some of the avalanche of new material backwards.

8 years between editions isn’t much when your campaigns last decades … yup, I’m definitely not the audience,
 

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Dire Bare

Legend
With the exception of 3 & 5, the number of players in new editions has been smaller than the edition before . . .
This is simply not true. Each edition of D&D has outsold previous editions, and D&D has seen upwards growth since 1974. The current edition, 5th, has seen explosive growth like never before.

A new "edition", a 5.5E if you will, is not going to hurt the growth of D&D or book sales.
 

This is simply not true. Each edition of D&D has outsold previous editions, and D&D has seen upwards growth since 1974. The current edition, 5th, has seen explosive growth like never before.

A new "edition", a 5.5E if you will, is not going to hurt the growth of D&D or book sales.

I don't know about the sales numbers but what he says largely matches my experience, which is the player base has shrunk or fragmented around editions. I don't it is always the case. 3E, with its back to the dungeon mindset, seemed to bring back a lot of people who had written off D&D as a dead brand (not sure if people remember the late 90s but it was pretty grim). Definitely remember it feeling like the 2E era, which I really liked, saw a shrinking base of players. I don't think it is very deniable that 4E split the player base and that allowed Pathfinder to grab a huge chunk of the D&D audience. The whole point of 5E was to bring people back together. I don't play 5E, like the OP, but it does seem they achieved that. I think the wild card here is D&D is exeperiencing very unprecedented popularity right now, and that might mean they don't have to worry as much. On the other hand, an edition break could be the sort of thing that disrupts popularity if its very divisive among current fans (I can't say whether One D&D would be or not as I am not familiar enough with 5E, so I can't really gauge all the proposed changes I have seen).
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
This is simply not true. Each edition of D&D has outsold previous editions, and D&D has seen upwards growth since 1974. The current edition, 5th, has seen explosive growth like never before.

A new "edition", a 5.5E if you will, is not going to hurt the growth of D&D or book sales.
Not if we believe Ben Riggs's stats. 2e rulebooks did not outsell 1e by the numbers we have from him as far as I can tell. We may not have numbers for 3e and 4e, just statements that the initial 4e print runs were doing better than 3e, but I don't believe for a second that 4e ended up with more players than 3e given the 4e controversy and success of Pathfinder as an alternative.

So I can see some room for concern given the track record of editions. But if the changes to 5e that come in One D&D are well-managed and not too drastic, I can see it being the most successful follow-up to an edition yet.
 

I suspect WotC has absolutely no interest in Older Edition fans, so I don’t suspect it’ll bring us back into the fold (whichever Older Editions we prefer),

but whatever One D&D is, I’ll buy the PHB and presumably play it occasionally with someone else DMing … and learn to convert some of the avalanche of new material backwards.

Like everyone else, the grognards will complain about wotc and then buy the game anyway
 


Akrasia

Procrastinator
So far I dislike that feats look to be no longer optional and that inspiration no longer can be readily ignored. I play with neither feats nor inspiration in order to foster a "gritty" and "old school" feel to my game and that may not be possible with 5.5e. I also like to minimize the choices that players have to make at first level.
 

Akrasia

Procrastinator
This is simply not true. Each edition of D&D has outsold previous editions, and D&D has seen upwards growth since 1974. The current edition, 5th, has seen explosive growth like never before.

A new "edition", a 5.5E if you will, is not going to hurt the growth of D&D or book sales.
Now this is "simply not true."

2e AD&D core rulebooks had about 50% as many sales during its run than the 1e AD&D rulebooks did. (See Ben Riggs's data and book Slaying the Dragon.)

We don't have publicly available data on 4e, but I strongly suspect that given how quickly it wilted and was replaced by 5e, its sales were pretty terrible a year or so after the initial release.
 

bloodtide

Adventurer
Old School Grognard here.

I don't expect much of One Six Edition, but then that was also true for 3E, 4E and 5E. They will make a couple new rules. They will change some rules. And guess they will just make races a title? "Just make a random character, whatever you want.....then just pick any race name and say your character is that."

Most modern gamers will love it. They will read the new "power nap" rules....regain all your stuff every 15 minutes...and will be very much "wow!".

Does WotC care about older fans....well, not so much. But then they don't care much about anyone.....that is not how companies work. They just want random people to buy their random stuff. After all, it would be SO EASY for them to make D&D:The Game Everyone Wants. And yet they never do that.

But it does not matter much. I'll pick up One Six Edition, use the suggestions for a vague game framework......and then still play the same Old School, Hard, Harsh, Unbalanced, Unfair, Player Character Killing game that I always have..............
 

Not if we believe Ben Riggs's stats. 2e rulebooks did not outsell 1e by the numbers we have from him as far as I can tell. We may not have numbers for 3e and 4e, just statements that the initial 4e print runs were doing better than 3e, but I don't believe for a second that 4e ended up with more players than 3e given the 4e controversy and success of Pathfinder as an alternative.

So I can see some room for concern given the track record of editions. But if the changes to 5e that come in One D&D are well-managed and not too drastic, I can see it being the most successful follow-up to an edition yet.

So I guess this is the reverse of the old Star Trek movies where the even numbers are the bad editions?
 

haakon1

Adventurer
This thread confuses me.

You don't think D&DONE will bring you 'back into the fold'.
You're 'not the audience'.
You're 'not a 5E fan'.

But you'll 'buy the PHB' anyway? Why? If you don't like something, why would you buy it? It makes no sense to me. If I don't like something, I don't buy it. Why would you?
I’ll buy a PHB to check it out and be able to play when someone wants to run the current edition.

There’s a big difference between buying a $50 PHB to be an occasional player, and actually supporting an edition.

For 3e, I have hundreds of books and have DM’d campaigns for 20 years with dozens of players.
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
We’re too early in the playtest cycle for me to say where I think 6e is going, but if it’s like any of the modern incarnations, it’s not going to be for me. I expect I will continue doing my own thing and pay about as much attention to it as I do 5e, which is not much but probably still enough to know what it’s basically doing. However, I’m trying to get out of the habit of buying gaming books just to collect them, so I’d like not to buy the books this time around if I can.
 

John Lloyd1

Explorer
After all, it would be SO EASY for them to make D&D:The Game Everyone Wants.
I don't think that creating a game that everyone wants is that easy. If you tried to do that you would end up with a camel that no one wants.

The way I see it, there are three design goals for D&D:
  • It needs to be a gateway game. Because it is an order of magnitude larger that any other RPG, it can't get most of its new players from other RPGs. They need to be players who are new to RPGs.
  • It should be sticky. While you can't keep the same player base for ever (they die eventually), keeping them playing D&D (and buying books) is a good idea.
  • It needs to feel like D&D. This is a hard one because D&D is different for every player.
This means that is needs to:
  • be simple to pick up and learn but with enough complexity that people say with it.
  • allows casual play styles (without system mastery), but also some depth
  • supports modern fantasy sub-genres that are generally popular and not too niche
So, if your favourite edition and play style leans into those criteria, you may like it. If not, it may not be your up of tea.
 

Like everyone else, the grognards will complain about wotc and then buy the game anyway

I think a lot won’t actually. And even those who buy the book may not play it. There are just too many alternatives these days if you want a damn older flavor of D&D. The last official edition I played regularly was 3E. I bought 4E and had a few very short campaigns. I bought 5E and played a handful of times. I’m unlikely to buy 6E, as I just haven’t been that interested in WOTC D&D in over two editions. If I do though, it will just be out of curiosity about the system
 

bloodtide

Adventurer
I don't think that creating a game that everyone wants is that easy. If you tried to do that you would end up with a camel that no one wants.

The way I see it, there are three design goals for D&D:
I'm sure Wizards and plenty of players think the way you think too.

Of course, my way is a bit different: Make a Fun Game.

See how mine is so simple? Long, long ago, back in the Time Before Time, when D&D was created it was "make a fun game", not your paragraph of things. And it worked.
 

haakon1

Adventurer
I think a lot won’t actually. And even those who buy the book may not play it. There are just too many alternatives these days if you want a damn older flavor of D&D. The last official edition I played regularly was 3E. I bought 4E and had a few very short campaigns. I bought 5E and played a handful of times. I’m unlikely to buy 6E, as I just haven’t been that interested in WOTC D&D in over two editions. If I do though, it will just be out of curiosity about the system
Same experience for me, except I’ll definitely buy the 6e PHB.

If WotC wants more than my $50 for the PHB, ways to tempt me back:

1) Put out an Xbox or PC game with the actual rules and turn based, clickable to see the dice rolls and all the mods, and character creation that’s the same as the books. Temple of Elemental Evil (real 3e rules) and Pathfinder: Kingmaker (real PF1 rules) are examples of this type of “teach the rules” games.

2) Make it very close to 5e.

3) Mean it that it’s the final edition. Whenever I thought “maybe I should finally truly teach myself 5e”, I counterthought “bah, what’s the point, there’ll be a new edition soon”.

They have literally millions of 5e players, so obviously my choices are irrelevant, but how to convert people is a challenge.
 



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