Li Shenron
Legend
Well I am a grognard by now, and I bought ZERO books for both 3.5 and 4e, so I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Grognard view of One D&D?
- Thread starter haakon1
- Start date
beancounter
(I/Me/Mine)
I'm hopeful that WoTC will not completely kill the golden goose that is 5E.
But I recognize that I'm not part of their target market anymore.
But I recognize that I'm not part of their target market anymore.
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John Lloyd1
Explorer
Why do you want that?
beancounter
(I/Me/Mine)
I don't want them to kill the golden goose. It was a typo I corrected.
John Lloyd1
Explorer
Good to hear.
TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
5,0 had many nods to older editions. The 2024 edition will clearly have fewer. But it may still work for me. And it will still retain many of the elements found in most editions.
I am running my 9th pre 1985 module converted to 5e. It works well. I get most of the complaints, and I have house rules. But those modules still work, and you can still challenge the player, and sometimes scare them, even in 5e. And there have been improvements over the deca, in player choice, rules coherence, and ease of DMing. There may be more improvements in 2024.
I am running my 9th pre 1985 module converted to 5e. It works well. I get most of the complaints, and I have house rules. But those modules still work, and you can still challenge the player, and sometimes scare them, even in 5e. And there have been improvements over the deca, in player choice, rules coherence, and ease of DMing. There may be more improvements in 2024.
I disagree, people are people and their are plenty of baselines that nearly everyone finds fun.
Well, a whole game design would really need another thread.
I agree it will be "hard", but anything worth doing is "hard". And it won't be "everyone", per the 20% rule, that 20% will hate it no matter what.
Jacob Lewis
Ye Olde GM
For anyone that needs to hear it (again, if they seen me post it elsewhere) :
You can get on the bus to let someone else drive and hope that they take you where you want to go. But if you feel like you missed your stop, don't just sit there and get pulled away from your destination. Have the courage to say, that's far enough. Let me off here. This is where I want to be. This is where I belong. I can find my own way now.
I already have my One DnD, as do many others. Obviously, we are not interested in the next new thing because it fails to be our favorite thing. However, that doesn't mean we'll look to see if there's any new and interesting ideas we can steal for our own things. That doesn't make you a grognard, or whatever you want to call it, because that's how it's always been. That makes you a D&D fan. You only stop being a fan when you stop playing or taking an interest. Period.
You can get on the bus to let someone else drive and hope that they take you where you want to go. But if you feel like you missed your stop, don't just sit there and get pulled away from your destination. Have the courage to say, that's far enough. Let me off here. This is where I want to be. This is where I belong. I can find my own way now.
I already have my One DnD, as do many others. Obviously, we are not interested in the next new thing because it fails to be our favorite thing. However, that doesn't mean we'll look to see if there's any new and interesting ideas we can steal for our own things. That doesn't make you a grognard, or whatever you want to call it, because that's how it's always been. That makes you a D&D fan. You only stop being a fan when you stop playing or taking an interest. Period.
Yes, I’ve thinking about that too.
A modified 3.5e (that is, the Core without the later excess that’s most of what people trash) with perhaps some 1e/2e & PF elements could be “forever advanced”.
And modified 5e (just to clean up) could be “forever basic”. Which is perhaps close to the One D&D idea.
Perhaps the claim that One D&D is the final edition actually is trying to do more or less this.
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I didn’t post my question in the D&D or One/5.5e forums because I’m aware this topic is likely irrelevant to those audiences.
For the audience in the Older Editions forum, I thought what are other Older Editions fans thinking about One D&D was relevant to the audience.
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A much more succinct way of saying most of what I meant.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
Do I count as a grognard? I started in '83 with B/X and then moved on to AD&D1E. I played those games + BEMCI, 2E, 3.xE and now 5E (I sampled and discarded 4E).
Anyway, I think it will be fine. The direction of the D&D brand has not always been to my liking and precise desires for the game - but me and my groups have always found ways to have fun.
And I am not sure why we need to be limited to one rule-set. The One D&D announcement made me excited to see what there would be to adopt for my current 5E games, but also made me bite the bullet and dig into OSR gaming (DCC), which a friend is running because those are fun too.
Look, it is all D&D. . . WotC may own the license for D&D, but actual D&D is whatever we play at our tables, however we play it. A rising tide lifts all boats and every new person who is introduced to the game via 5E and its iterations is one more person who might also discover so-called old-school gaming through that connection to the community that they very likely would not have discovered otherwise.
And never say never. When 3E came out I was over the moon about it and was like, "I can't understand why anyone would continue to play 2E when this was available." Now, 20 years later, I am much more likely to go back to playing 2E than to try 3.xE again. My tastes have changed (again) and I figure they may change yet again. Who can say?
Anyway, I think it will be fine. The direction of the D&D brand has not always been to my liking and precise desires for the game - but me and my groups have always found ways to have fun.
And I am not sure why we need to be limited to one rule-set. The One D&D announcement made me excited to see what there would be to adopt for my current 5E games, but also made me bite the bullet and dig into OSR gaming (DCC), which a friend is running because those are fun too.
Look, it is all D&D. . . WotC may own the license for D&D, but actual D&D is whatever we play at our tables, however we play it. A rising tide lifts all boats and every new person who is introduced to the game via 5E and its iterations is one more person who might also discover so-called old-school gaming through that connection to the community that they very likely would not have discovered otherwise.
And never say never. When 3E came out I was over the moon about it and was like, "I can't understand why anyone would continue to play 2E when this was available." Now, 20 years later, I am much more likely to go back to playing 2E than to try 3.xE again. My tastes have changed (again) and I figure they may change yet again. Who can say?
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So, why do you care at all?
Totally. I care a lot about the health of the game overall. Which is why I’m happy for 5e‘s success (even though I rarely play it and never DM it) and hope the Golden Goose - the edition that went culturally mainstream and undoubtedly has the largest player base in history - doesn’t get derailed.
Though none of my current players came from 5e.
Campaign 1: 1 from Basic, 3 from 1e, 4 I was their first DM
Campaign 2: 1 from 1e, 6 I was their first DM
I was a “Day One” adopter of 3 editions.
2e, I remember my friend who was later a game store owner and now is a game designer bringing the PHB he travelled many miles for into my room, as the group gathered rapt at these new delights.
… But I didn’t actually like it. Within 1.5 years, I stopped playing D&D and was running unrelated games. It took until 1996 (8 years after 2e) for me to dig out my AD&D 1e materials and start playing with friends who had all dropped. I have never stopped DMing since.
3e, I ignored because I was happy with 1e and had a bad experience with 2e. A friend who I’d brought back to D&D advised me to try it, I became a player in a 3e campaign I enjoyed, and I switched my campaigns about a year late.
3.5e, I switched immediately and never looked back - still running it today. My players complained about yet another edition change (1e to 3e to 3.5e), but it was largely painless.
4e, I was literally there on Day One - at the launch event in Seattle, with a signed PHB to prove it. I played for about a year - with the same DM who I’d first played 3e with - but I didn’t like. I never switched what I DM’d.
5e, I largely ignored. Since it and 3e were phenomenally successful, that was apparently a good omen. I bought the PHB early but the only campaign I joined was short lived by a first time DM, and I never was inclined to learn it all to DM it myself. The majority of my playing of 5e has been GenCon Online. It was fun, but I noticed the DM’s were mixing in some earlier rules, which is great - I’m a firm believer in Rule Zero. I remember one GenCon DM saying “huh, I don’t know the rule for this - does anyone know?“ I answered, “No idea in 5e, but in 3e the rule is X” and that’s what he decided.
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Thomas Shey
Legend
Which are necessary but not sufficient. After a while I very much did not find OD&D fun, because it was not sufficient.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
I am running two 5E groups currently:
In Game 1 (4 players), two have not played since 2E days and returned to D&D with 5E. The other two players are brand new to D&D with 5E.
In Game 2 (3 players), two of the players are folks I have gamed with on and off (mostly on) since the 90s (93 and 96 respectively) and that I ran games for (or played in games with) in 2E, 3E and now 5E. The other player is someone who joined up with us in the early 00s (returning to D&D after a decade break) to play 3E and now another 15 years later has joined us for a 5E game.
I was resistant to 2E but ended up adopting it within a year of its coming out. I was a 3E adopter from BEFORE Day One, greedily soaking up every leak and preview that was shared on this site back when EN still stood for "Eric Noah." I picked up my 3E PHB at GEN CON 2000 where it was first dropped. But was not happy with 3.5 and only adopted a handful of its rules (never even bothered with the 3.% DMG or MM) or some half-measures when I agreed with the premise for the change but not the change itself.
4E we tried a playtest when the books came out but all agreed it was not for us (though we did adopt the idea of a second wind to our 3E games). I would give away my 4E books soon after.
For 5E, I had not run D&D in a decade, when I was talked into it by members of the first group mentioned above - so I bought 5E with blind faith (knowing it was popular) and thought it was a great half-step back from 3E towards 2E and I liked that). It still had a little of the assumptions of (super)heroic play I did not like from 4E (and 3E) but I find that was easy enough to adjust.
Ultimately, the people I play with care more about the experience than the rules (with some exceptions) and are happy to go along with almost anything I suggest.
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Lanefan
Victoria Rules
Problem is, if all your friends decide to stay on the bus, then what?
You're standing there on the roadside right where you want to be, by yourself, as the bus pulls away with your friends still aboard. That's the problem many face every time there's a major update or edition change, and the only perfect solution is to never again change editions.
I don't think WotC is going to go that route, somehow.
But 5E is the last edition!
