Group expanding to 7 players - help me manage

[pukunui]

Hi all,

My group is expanding to 7 players. While everyone is all for it, I'm a little bit concerned about being able to manage a group so large. I personally prefer more intimate groups for social gatherings, but I'm willing to give this large group a go.

Obviously we'll need to be more on the ball during combat. I currently have a table rule that indicates that if you're not ready to go "within a reasonable amount of time", then your PC will automatically delay until you are ready. My players all agree that I'll have to actually start enforcing this rule and that I should set the time limit at 30 seconds (I guess I'll need to start bringing a stop watch).

That's all well and good but does anyone have any other suggestions for managing a large group? I'm not just looking for ways to improve time management but also ways to make sure that no one gets lost in the crowd. I want to make sure that I'll be able to continue to give everyone the attention they need. It's going to get quite hectic at times, I'm sure.

Hopefully it'll be more fun than not, though. Everyone seems pretty positive about it, which is good. The new players are not new to RPGs, or even D&D, but they are new to 4th Edition -- but then, who isn't? It's still early days for all of us ...


Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Jonathan

p.s. I've cross-posted this on the WotC forums.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

Make a "turn stick" whoever has the "turn stick" can do his/her actions or have the spotlight. Pass the "turn stick" arround the table, and only the person with said "Turn stick" may talk, unless of cource they require interaction.
For combats, allow 2 people to fight at the same time, including yourself (as the DM) This will keep things organized and help things go faster.

At least this is what has worked with me and big groups before.

 

[pukunui]

Make a "turn stick" whoever has the "turn stick" can do his/her actions or have the spotlight. Pass the "turn stick" arround the table, and only the person with said "Turn stick" may talk, unless of cource they require interaction.
For combats, allow 2 people to fight at the same time, including yourself (as the DM) This will keep things organized and help things go faster.

At least this is what has worked with me and big groups before.

Thanks. I might try the "turn stick" if we have a problem with people talking all at once all the time or whatever. I'm not sure about having people act in combat at the same time. I don't know if I can multitask like that. I can't even handle having everyone call out their initiative all at once -- I always have to go back and ask one person at a time what they got.

 

[knightofround]

I think the key is to know your players well. Some people want to sit at the table just to hang out with the guys, some people just want to watch a cool story unfold, some people want to actively participate.

When I first ran large groups I was always worried about giving each character equal amounts of time/dedication. However I found that some players *didn't* want the story to revolve around them, they just wanted to hang out and roll dice. Other people were just interested in the boardgame-tactical element combat, and became annoyed when I started restricting speech in combat. The "serious" roleplayers got miffed because they couldn't commandeer the story as they would previously like to.

So, end result being I threw away the idea of giving everyone equal time, and it improved things for everyone. =P

Of course, if you don't know your group that well it can be tricky. You could try running 2 miniquests per session, with each miniquest geared towards a player. You can judge by how they handle it what they're looking for in the game.

Some other things I've found useful...

Assume that 1 or 2 players will be missing each session. Start as soon as you get 3/4 of your players (or in your case, 5/7) If you don't have 3/4 but do have 1/2, play anyway. I like employing a "dream plane" in my gaming worlds, ala wheel of time's Tel'aran'rhiod. This allows players to further explore the world and the story, but it doesn't mess up the timeline, and the people who miss the session won't be missing essential story elements.

Have people designate proxies to play their character if they're busy or can't make it.

Give control of ally NPCs to players. If a PC character is eliminated/not present at a fight, let them run a couple monsters instead.

See if one of the players is interested in co-DMing. Two heads are better than one (if they gel well together). This can allow the players to play off NPCs against each other, and have multi-sided battles. 8 players + 2 DMs is a very fun combo imho because it can allow the variety of both small party and large party encounties. Both the best campaign and worst campaign I have ever run were co-DMed, so your mileage may vary.

Have each player make multiple characters. If someone dies/decides to part with the group sometime, the last thing you want is to make the other 6 people wait for the new character to be created.

Let the PC with the best perception/knowledge skills track hitpoints for enemy monsters instead of doing it yourself.

Don't use too many minions.

Use minis; its easy to forget where everyone is in larger groups.

Here's a mechanics idea that I found helped alot:
Have all characters "take 10" on their initiative rolls. (unless its a special situation of some sort) This allows PCs to sit in order of initiative, which makes it so much easier for everybody to tell who's turn is coming up. Don't allow players to ready actions, and if they want to delay, make them head to the back of the bus automatically -- rather than screwing up the order.

 

[pukunui]

I think the key is to know your players well. Some people want to sit at the table just to hang out with the guys, some people just want to watch a cool story unfold, some people want to actively participate.

When I first ran large groups I was always worried about giving each character equal amounts of time/dedication. However I found that some players *didn't* want the story to revolve around them, they just wanted to hang out and roll dice. Other people were just interested in the boardgame-tactical element combat, and became annoyed when I started restricting speech in combat. The "serious" roleplayers got miffed because they couldn't commandeer the story as they would previously like to.

So, end result being I threw away the idea of giving everyone equal time, and it improved things for everyone. =P

Of course, if you don't know your group that well it can be tricky. You could try running 2 miniquests per session, with each miniquest geared towards a player. You can judge by how they handle it what they're looking for in the game.

Thanks for this advice. I know 3 of my players pretty well. The other 4 are all new-ish (two we've been gaming with for a few months now, the other two have just joined but they're old friends of one of my veteran players).

Assume that 1 or 2 players will be missing each session. Start as soon as you get 3/4 of your players (or in your case, 5/7) If you don't have 3/4 but do have 1/2, play anyway.

This is more or less what I do, though I really don't like having missing players, a) because I hate for them to miss out on the cool stuff I have planned and b) I hate having to figure out what to do with the PC.

I like employing a "dream plane" in my gaming worlds, ala wheel of time's Tel'aran'rhiod. This allows players to further explore the world and the story, but it doesn't mess up the timeline, and the people who miss the session won't be missing essential story elements.

This is an intriguing idea.

Have people designate proxies to play their character if they're busy or can't make it.

For some reason, this never seems to stick. Also, some of my players have had bad experiences being proxies (one guy has had several PCs belonging to other players die while he was controlling them). The group voted to have PCs of absentee players "fade into the background". Sometimes it works. On the occasion when we need a particular PC around, I'll run the PC myself or get one of the other players to do it. Also, I've got quite a few new or very rusty people, and it's hard enough for them to control one PC, let alone two ...

Give control of ally NPCs to players. If a PC character is eliminated/not present at a fight, let them run a couple monsters instead.

I've done this before and will probably do it again. It's a good idea.

See if one of the players is interested in co-DMing. Two heads are better than one (if they gel well together). This can allow the players to play off NPCs against each other, and have multi-sided battles. 8 players + 2 DMs is a very fun combo imho because it can allow the variety of both small party and large party encounties. Both the best campaign and worst campaign I have ever run were co-DMed, so your mileage may vary.

I'll definitely consider this option if having 7 players and 1 DM proves too unmanageable for me.

Have each player make multiple characters. If someone dies/decides to part with the group sometime, the last thing you want is to make the other 6 people wait for the new character to be created.

I've tried this before and due to bad experiences in the past, it's not really an option for my particular group. Essentially, we were having a lot of PC deaths in a 3.5 campaign, so I told everyone they needed to have a backup character, and that more or less led to people being even less invested in their current characters than they were before ...

Let the PC with the best perception/knowledge skills track hitpoints for enemy monsters instead of doing it yourself.

This is an intriguing idea. However, I've made myself a handy spreadsheet that helps, so it's not really an issue for me.

Don't use too many minions.

I hear ya on this one. I've already been modifying encounters by knocking out a bunch of minions and replacing them with fewer tougher monsters.

Use minis; its easy to forget where everyone is in larger groups.

Already do.

Here's a mechanics idea that I found helped alot:
Have all characters "take 10" on their initiative rolls. (unless its a special situation of some sort) This allows PCs to sit in order of initiative, which makes it so much easier for everybody to tell who's turn is coming up. Don't allow players to ready actions, and if they want to delay, make them head to the back of the bus automatically -- rather than screwing up the order.

I'm not sure my guys would go for these. They like rolling for initiative. They also like readying actions. Making delaying characters go straight to the back of the bus is a good idea though.

 

[the Jester]

When running combat, tell the pcs whose turn it is, and then tell them who the next two to go will be. That speeds up large combats immensely ime.

I have been running groups of 7-8 players consistently for years and in every edition. It's great fun, and it's not as hard as it sounds!

 

[pukunui]

When running combat, tell the pcs whose turn it is, and then tell them who the next two to go will be. That speeds up large combats immensely ime.

I have been running groups of 7-8 players consistently for years and in every edition. It's great fun, and it's not as hard as it sounds!

Awesome thanks! Lately I've been trying to announce "who's on deck", but I don't always remember. I think I'll delegate that task to whoever is tracking initiative for the players (and that way it becomes the players' responsibility to pay attention and be on the ball -- and the consequence of not paying attention and being prepared is simply that your character hesitates during combat, which has its own in-game consequences).

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Awesome thanks! Lately I've been trying to announce "who's on deck", but I don't always remember. I think I'll delegate that task to whoever is tracking initiative for the players (and that way it becomes the players' responsibility to pay attention and be on the ball -- and the consequence of not paying attention and being prepared is simply that your character hesitates during combat, which has its own in-game consequences).

Having "initiative cards" helps with that - simply a card with each character's name and initiative score on it. You can roll for the monsters ahead of time and create their cards too (or just assume all monsters take 10).

As each player rolls initiative, write their score on their card and put them in a pile. As you finish each players/monsters turn, put their card to the back of the stack, look directly at the next player and tell them it's their turn, and pick up the card to see who's next.

But I also like the idea of all players taking 10 on initiatve, too.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

If you are going to limit face time for the players then an egg timer is better than a stopwatch as the players can all see the timer.

 

[jbear]

I used a minute sand clock that i stole out of the pictionary box on my last session to try and speed things up. when a players turn is announced I flip the clock. This has cut down on a lot of meta game tactics time wasting and given an urgency to each players turn. At the end of play everyone agreed they enjoyed the time pressure and the more fluid play in combat.

The Initiative deck sounds like a cool idea. Another way to do it is everyone rolls initiative standing up and the person with the highest initiative sits to the left of the DM and then the next highest to their left etc. this way you dont take the flavour of variable initiative away by taking 10 but everyone physically knows when there turn is near so they should be ready when it arrives.

Are u using cards? i made cards with the magic set editor that was on one of the 4e posts. Made some very fun and original cards for everyones powers, magic items and class abilities. Then i made a big battle card that just has the important stats necessary for combat and on the back their skill list, which has reduced the need to look at character sheets down to basically end of the day book keeping.
The cards I printed on normal paper and then slipped them into the see through plastic card covers with a magic card inside to keep them rigid. Even edited a few of the cool fantasy images in photo shop and slipped in the actual faces of the players. (that didnt speed up play but they thought that was pretty cool.)

I'm using different counters from the board game 'Descent' to mark bloodied monsters and pcs and have given tokens to characters so they can mark, signal their prey, and keep track of who is cursed and whose not. some times the stack can be 4 high but it has helped keep clear who has marked what, whose wounded etc. A bit less tracking to do.

As far as handling 7 people at once and keeping everyone happy, I'm not sure what to say, i think that is something instinctual that you'll pick up from your players reaction. The players good will and helpfulness goes a long way. Anyway good luck and let us know how it goes.

Btw a big G'day going your way from a kiwi in Spain