Grr. Return of the King makes me angry.

EricNoah · Dec 8, 2004

I've seen old TSR products that spelled Lolth both ways (Lloth is the other way). That's where that came from.

Spatula · Dec 8, 2004

CrusadeDave said:
The end of Fellowship and Two Towers just don't seem to work. In fact, whenever Peter, Fran, and Phillipa invent something to add to the story in order to get the pacing and buildup right, it doesn't seem to work as well as what came before.

I don't know, the ending of FotR works just fine for me - Boromir dead, Sam and Frodo run off with the ring, Merry and Pippin captured... The Fellowship has been broken. What happens next? I'm with barsoomcore in that this is the best one of the trilogy. It doesn't hurt that it's probably the one that sticks closest to the source.

It's with Two Towers that things start to break down. You talk about natural endings - well, the natural ending of the TT would have been Saruman's defeat. Instead we get a mishmash of different resolutions - Sam's pep talk, Gandalf's charge, the ent tearing up Isengard. PJ says there wasn't enough time, but there would have been if he hadn't added in so many pointless scenes. Aragorn's disappearance. Faramir dragging Frodo to Osiligoth. The elves arriving at Helm's deep (on foot - how'd they know where to go? how'd they get there before everyone else? why didn't they just accompany the Fellowship when they left Lothlorien?).

You don't need four movies to tell the story, unless you're throwing in the beginning, as told by the books, the scouring of the shire, etc.

barsoomcore · Dec 9, 2004

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
There IS a major problem with the Ring's destruction not being the 'climax'.

You spend three movies talking about how evil, corrupting, and dangerous the ring is. The entire GOAL of the story is to destroy this ring. When you have to spend all this time focusing on the destruction of this ring, you just plain can't have this NOT be the climactic moment.

Okay.

*takes several deep breaths*

I get the impression I'm speaking too quietly, or in some language only I know how to speak. It seems I'm having a great deal of trouble communicating my basic point.

Let me try once more: I believe it is possible to make a film of these books that ends with the Scouring of the Shire. I do not believe it would have been a good idea to "tack on" such a sequence to the end of the films that Peter Jackson and his team made. You're right, the entire GOAL of the story of these films is to destroy the Ring. Adding the Scouring to THESE films won't work. I agree. I believe I have already said that I agree, but here I am, saying it again.

I agree that if you create a set of films in which the audience is told again and again that the point of this whole story is the destruction of the Ring, they will react to a lengthy set of sequences AFTER that event with frustration.

I thought it was obvious that the answer to that problem is NOT spend the movies telling the audience again and again that the whole point of this story is the destruction of the Ring. What I would suggest is that you make the whole point of the story the preservation of the Shire. I don't have a good solution off the top of my head -- we're talking about a pretty mammoth undertaking, here, so you'll have to forgive me that. But you don't "have to spend all this time focusing on the destruction of the Ring." Focus on preserving the Shire.

You will have to change many things from the book. That's inevitable when translating from page to screen.

Repeating variations on "In THESE films it won't work" does nothing to establish the notion that it's an impossible cinematic task. It's not impossible -- or at least nobody in this thread has offered any evidence to suggest it's impossible. They just keep saying over and over again that Peter Jackson didn't do it.

Which I agree with. I just wish I'd seen the Scouring, and I believe it's possible to create movies that would support such a presentation.

Berandor · Dec 9, 2004

EricNoah said:
Oh my, I think I have a campaign idea just from that misspelling!

That was no misspelling!

*sniff*
nobody digs my humor.

ETA: barsoomcore - look at those movies. Look at them. You couldn't have put the Scouring at the end of them - it wouldn't have worked. Seriously, you'd have to create a whole different set of films for that to work. Can't you see that?

Umbran · Dec 9, 2004

barsoomcore said:
I get the impression I'm speaking too quietly, or in some language only I know how to speak. It seems I'm having a great deal of trouble communicating my basic point.

I don't think you are having trouble communicating your point. I get your point, but I don't agree with it. You got your basic point across to me a long time ago. I seem to have failed to get mine across.

Let me try once more: I believe it is possible to make a film of these books that ends with the Scouring of the Shire. I do not believe it would have been a good idea to "tack on" such a sequence to the end of the films that Peter Jackson and his team made.

I believe that the issue isn't with Peter Jackson's work. The issue is with Tolkein's original text, which does not seem to me to have the emphasis you want to place in your movie. The climaxes we mention are points Jackson took from Tolkein. It's part of the base story, not just Jackson's movie.

What I would suggest is that you make the whole point of the story the preservation of the Shire.
[...snip...]
You will have to change many things from the book. That's inevitable when translating from page to screen.

I think if you are going to muck with the original text that badly, you really aren't making a movie of LotR. You are making a movie "inspired by" LotR, and it really isn't the same story anymore, either in theme or in content. At that point, you ought to just write a new story that is similar to the Scouring without all the baggage you don't want in your movie.

Arnwyn · Dec 9, 2004

barsoomcore said:
and I believe it's possible to create movies that would support such a presentation.

Sure, I guess.

I just wish I'd seen the Scouring,

Hell, no.

Ranger REG · Dec 9, 2004

barsoomcore said:
Which I agree with. I just wish I'd seen the Scouring, and I believe it's possible to create movies that would support such a presentation.

It's possible, but who have the gusto to do it after Peter Jackson's adaptation?

I'm sure PJ's will not be the only LOTR live-action film, but I doubt another remake will be made before I'm 55 (20 years from now).

David Howery · Dec 10, 2004

maybe in 20 years, the Sci Fi channel will do it as a weeklong special and throw in every single scene from the books.. would that make you all happy?

Pants · Dec 10, 2004

David Howery said:
maybe in 20 years, the Sci Fi channel will do it as a weeklong special and throw in every single scene from the books.. would that make you all happy?

No, because it would be very boring.