D&D 5E [Guidance] What, +1d4 to every check ever?

[Kobold Stew]

Want to cast a spell every minute? Knock yourself out. But that's tedious and boring. And since it's concentration, you can't cast any other spell that requires concentration without losing it.

Well said.

 

[Joe Liker]

It's not an overpowered cantrip, and I would definitely take issue if my DM tried to houserule additional restrictions on it.

If you find it tedious to hear the player say, "I cast guidance," over and over, just tell him/her to silently hand a d4 to the spell's target instead.

Alternatively, you could suggest a short blessing, appropriate to the cleric's deity, to be uttered as the die is passed. Something as simple as, "Good luck!" for a god of fortune, "Go in health" for life, or "Walk in the light" for light. This will be a lot less jarring and annoying than "I cast guidance!"

 

[SkidAce]

That's not my point.

Would you stop a human cleric from "spamming" the light cantrip so they can see?
Would you stop a warlock from making eldritch blast their primary attack?
Would you stop a sorcerer or wizard from using ray of frost?

I don't see the issue of Guidance as being different. If the people who play this way enjoy it, what's the harm?

If the problem that people see is with the one spell, then allow (or require) the player to replace that spell with something else, but to do so (if there is to be any reasonable choice for the layer) there have to be more cantrips available.

I agree that if people who play that way enjoy it, there's no harm. That was my point. I wouldn't stop any of those examples.

I was attempting to discuss the comment you made that its the "way clerics are supposed to be played".

But context and the internet has thwarted me yet again. No worries.

 

[seregil]

The constant use of Guidance strikes me as being abusive as heck. Min/Maxing from Hell, now known as 'optimization'

That being said, there are some limitations:

1. (as noted above) It's a concentration effect, so if the cleric is concentrating on this, he's not concentrating on anything else such as watching for that orc sneaking up from behind. At minimum, he will get disadvantage on anything else he does.
2. Secondly, it needs to be cast EVERY minute, meaning that every minute, the cleric is going to tough the other guy. Really?!? Let's put that in roleplaying terms: you're sneaking down a hallway in hostile territory doing your best to be quiet and watching for anything nasty and EVERY minute, the cleric comes up, mutters some spiritual platitude that got old 300 castings ago and touches you? I don't know about you, but anyone who wasn't a saint would be driven homicidal by that. The rest of the group will MAKE the cleric stop after a while (in character), probably in the first hour. IF I was the guy on point, I'd kill you myself before you got the rest of us killed.
3. Let's look at it from the gods/church's perspective. It's like a priest blessing EVERYTHING he touches all day, every day. Really? After a while, a minion of his god or a representative of his church will show up and slap him upside the head to make him stop. He's wasting his divine power and diluting its significance by using it on anything/everything. Heck, as far as I am concerned, after a day or two of doing it, he'd be in need of an atonement spell.
4. From a logistics perspective, it's just not realistic for it to be on all the time. Therefore, it can only really be used for checks that you know about, i.e. elective skill checks. It won't help you when you're on point during a dungeon crawl because you DON'T know when the DM will check to see if you spot the nasty lurking in the dark. It will help you when you decide to pick the lock of a door because the cleric will then step forth and cast it on you.

So, while mechanically, there is no limit on casting it constantly (i.e. At Will), I can see MANY limits both from a logistic perspective and from a role-playing perspective.

As usual, YMMV.

 

[1of3]

1. (as noted above) It's a concentration effect, so if the cleric is concentrating on this, he's not concentrating on anything else such as watching for that orc sneaking up from behind. At minimum, he will get disadvantage on anything else he does.

That is not what concentration means. Concentration has very clear rules. Disadvantage on checks is not one of them.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I'm not sure I understand the objection. It's not significantly different than the Aid Another action in 3e. Sure, 5e has the Help action (which is better than Guidance) but it doesn't stack like Aid Another. I mean, do you guys put locked chests and stuck doors in your dungeons so the players can't get past them?

Are you concerned about stealth or perception? I mean, it's still a spell with verbal components. The players are going to give away their positions casting it repeatedly.

 

[KarinsDad]

The player has a choice each and every time it is cast.

If the player attitude is going to follow a logic where some of the time this is awesome, therefore I should do it all the time -- don't be surprised if the ability ceases to be awesome.

Power-gaming is the same way. If something in the game gets trivialized, the game (DM) tends to move to untrivialize it.

See high stat characters where suddenly everything has max hit points (recent PF game I was in with power-gamed characters).Or suddenly CR+4 is the new norm instead of CR+1.

I like Guidance as written, but it will reshape the way challenges are presented if it becomes assumed.

I agree with KS.

A +D4 bonus on one skill in the party that can be spammed, but probably won't be, is not overkill.

Punishing the player for using it, on the other hand, is overkill. A simple conversation to the player to use it when appropriate, but do not overdo it should suffice if the DM has a real issue with it.

 

[sunshadow21]

[/LIST]

That is not what concentration means. Concentration has very clear rules. Disadvantage on checks is not one of them.

I believe that the point he was making was that casting Guidance when trying to be stealthy would give the stealth roll a disadvantage because the spell has both verbal and somatic components that work against the concept of stealth. Casting guidance will not automatically grant disadvantage, but there will be plenty of times where casting it will cause the target to suffer a disadvantage on the associated roll because the act of casting it works against the goal of the roll in question.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I think the raising DCs fix doesn't hit the real heart of the objection to guidance, which is the tedious, repetitive casting.

If the +1d4 bonus was a problem, though, raising DCs to compensate and maintain challenge is the farthest thing from punitive. It's a big part of the DM's job to provide fun challenges for the players, and if player skill bonuses make the default DCs too unchallenging, of course you would consider raising them.

It would be punitive not to react to increased player capabilities by raising difficulty.

 

[seregil]

My point is that there is no way for Guidance to be "always on" even if it is an at-will spell.

So, as written, it is acceptable to me because I can see simple, realistic ways to curtail its use to something that is reasonable without needing any 'DM Fiat' stuff. For example, it can only be used for percetion if, just before heading out to scout the room around the corner, the rogue gets Guidance from the priest. Assuming the distance isn't too great, the rogue should still be under the influence of the spell when he says "I try and see if there is anything in the room"