Okay, let's try again a bit from memory.
RE Haste:
If your party has a Sorcerer who knows that Death Is The Best CC, and that therefore Twinned Haste is often the best move when there are two competent martials in the party, then Vengeance Paladin's ability to cast it is merely a nice perk. OTOH if you not, then it jumps up an excellent ability.
There are a couple reasons for this. The first is because who casts Haste? By the time Paladin gets it, both Bards and Wizards have a number of very potent spells they can open combat with or use their Concentration on. Also, and this is very important, even if they want to be supportive and Haste the martial, I... *cringe* I really don't really trust anything less than a War Wizard with 16 CON and proficiency to cast Haste on me. Losing turns sucks - it's the worst status effect - and unless the DM is easy mode or our hypothetical support caster here is an exceptionally good player, the so-called "backline" is liable to take damage and roll those saves.
OTOH, while you can't control how other people build or play their characters, you can control yours. And sure, as a melee character that is also likely operating under the classic D&D Gentlemen's Agreement* you're liable to be put in harm's way, but regardless of your position on the battlefield, a Paladin with Resilient (CON) is a formidable chassis with high AC and high Saves. In practice, I've only found myself losing Concentration in situations where I'd be incapacitated anyway, so hey.
The second is that, well, Haste is really good.
It's not just the AC bump and additional damage (which btw pays itself back within 3 turns), or the advantage on DEX (which along with prof. in CON/WIS/CHA takes care of all the important saves) - those are really nice perks, but the important thing is that it dramatically alters the way a melee martial can interact with the battlefield, like no other spell can.
The mobility is obvious; 60 feet is a lot of movement, and you can conditionally bump that to 120, or opt to Disengage and just reposition without concerns, but it's that extra action that allows you to this that makes it so versatile. On a Rogue it allows them to Sneak Attack twice in the same round by Readying their normal action, and Paladins can't do that, but here we have PAM. The Haste Attack satisfies the condition, so you can use your BA Attack alongside it even on the same turn you activated Haste (in case you didn't VoE). You can also fight defensively - attack twice, then use your normal action to Dodge and make your already high AC unassailable. Or you can shove the enemy, then attack thrice with advantage and share it with all your other melee friends too! The Haste Attack also satisfies the Shield Master condition, so you could go Haste Attack > Shove > Attack Twice, which I think should be on the guide.
And naturally, an additional attack is an additional proc of IDS and chance to smite and crit, which just plays nicely with the Paladin's kit.
Then come the Oath of Vengeance specific synergies. PAM+Relentless Avenger, enemy bumps into you and you move 30 feet away, good luck catching you, or hey now your allies are within the Aura of Protection. Add Sentinel - enemy is immobilized. Or double up Haste on your Steed: now your horse has +2 AC and is Dodging 100% of the time, and moves 120ft or 240ft depending on whether it wants to Disengage or Dash. It's like you've gained the ability to teleport across the battlefield at no cost. Now imagine it on a Pegasus.
Much like PAM, Haste is both exceptionally good and fun. It's hard to beat that.
*I, a D&D DM, hereby agree to have my monsters disproportionately target melee characters, so that they may feel like they're performing the role of "tanks" by protecting the "squishies", even though the mechanics hardly support this gameplay and they might've built their characters in such a way that they are clearly the lesser threats.
Sure.
Glaive: 291.12 (313.05 if GWF is taken and it affects extra damage dice)
Spear: 235.23
If that's what you were wondering, yep, late in the progression, once you've taken PAM and maxed out your combat stat, GWM is the only way to go, and with a very nice 15~25% damage bump to show for it.
GWM + PAM is good. On most Fighters and Barbarians it's the optimal melee combo, so you start with PAM and then grab GWM at 8 or 12, potentially even earlier depending on your numbers. For Paladins the situation is a little different, mainly because you have a very good on-demand damage adder and an automatic one at 11, which reduces the comparative advantage of taking GWM vs just bumping up your base accuracy. Additionally, Fighters and Barbarians and Rangers have no other roles worth investing in beyond more damage, whereas Paladins have the very powerful option of taking more Charisma.
What this means is that the difference between the 1h PAM and 2h PAM pathway on Paladins boils down to whether you ~eventually~ want to deal the most damage possible, or if you're content with - again, eventually - pausing your damage progression shy of that in return for the benefits of more Charisma and equipping a shield throughout your career.
RE Haste:
If your party has a Sorcerer who knows that Death Is The Best CC, and that therefore Twinned Haste is often the best move when there are two competent martials in the party, then Vengeance Paladin's ability to cast it is merely a nice perk. OTOH if you not, then it jumps up an excellent ability.
There are a couple reasons for this. The first is because who casts Haste? By the time Paladin gets it, both Bards and Wizards have a number of very potent spells they can open combat with or use their Concentration on. Also, and this is very important, even if they want to be supportive and Haste the martial, I... *cringe* I really don't really trust anything less than a War Wizard with 16 CON and proficiency to cast Haste on me. Losing turns sucks - it's the worst status effect - and unless the DM is easy mode or our hypothetical support caster here is an exceptionally good player, the so-called "backline" is liable to take damage and roll those saves.
OTOH, while you can't control how other people build or play their characters, you can control yours. And sure, as a melee character that is also likely operating under the classic D&D Gentlemen's Agreement* you're liable to be put in harm's way, but regardless of your position on the battlefield, a Paladin with Resilient (CON) is a formidable chassis with high AC and high Saves. In practice, I've only found myself losing Concentration in situations where I'd be incapacitated anyway, so hey.
The second is that, well, Haste is really good.
It's not just the AC bump and additional damage (which btw pays itself back within 3 turns), or the advantage on DEX (which along with prof. in CON/WIS/CHA takes care of all the important saves) - those are really nice perks, but the important thing is that it dramatically alters the way a melee martial can interact with the battlefield, like no other spell can.
The mobility is obvious; 60 feet is a lot of movement, and you can conditionally bump that to 120, or opt to Disengage and just reposition without concerns, but it's that extra action that allows you to this that makes it so versatile. On a Rogue it allows them to Sneak Attack twice in the same round by Readying their normal action, and Paladins can't do that, but here we have PAM. The Haste Attack satisfies the condition, so you can use your BA Attack alongside it even on the same turn you activated Haste (in case you didn't VoE). You can also fight defensively - attack twice, then use your normal action to Dodge and make your already high AC unassailable. Or you can shove the enemy, then attack thrice with advantage and share it with all your other melee friends too! The Haste Attack also satisfies the Shield Master condition, so you could go Haste Attack > Shove > Attack Twice, which I think should be on the guide.
And naturally, an additional attack is an additional proc of IDS and chance to smite and crit, which just plays nicely with the Paladin's kit.
Then come the Oath of Vengeance specific synergies. PAM+Relentless Avenger, enemy bumps into you and you move 30 feet away, good luck catching you, or hey now your allies are within the Aura of Protection. Add Sentinel - enemy is immobilized. Or double up Haste on your Steed: now your horse has +2 AC and is Dodging 100% of the time, and moves 120ft or 240ft depending on whether it wants to Disengage or Dash. It's like you've gained the ability to teleport across the battlefield at no cost. Now imagine it on a Pegasus.
Much like PAM, Haste is both exceptionally good and fun. It's hard to beat that.
*I, a D&D DM, hereby agree to have my monsters disproportionately target melee characters, so that they may feel like they're performing the role of "tanks" by protecting the "squishies", even though the mechanics hardly support this gameplay and they might've built their characters in such a way that they are clearly the lesser threats.
Sure.
Glaive: 291.12 (313.05 if GWF is taken and it affects extra damage dice)
Spear: 235.23
If that's what you were wondering, yep, late in the progression, once you've taken PAM and maxed out your combat stat, GWM is the only way to go, and with a very nice 15~25% damage bump to show for it.
GWM + PAM is good. On most Fighters and Barbarians it's the optimal melee combo, so you start with PAM and then grab GWM at 8 or 12, potentially even earlier depending on your numbers. For Paladins the situation is a little different, mainly because you have a very good on-demand damage adder and an automatic one at 11, which reduces the comparative advantage of taking GWM vs just bumping up your base accuracy. Additionally, Fighters and Barbarians and Rangers have no other roles worth investing in beyond more damage, whereas Paladins have the very powerful option of taking more Charisma.
What this means is that the difference between the 1h PAM and 2h PAM pathway on Paladins boils down to whether you ~eventually~ want to deal the most damage possible, or if you're content with - again, eventually - pausing your damage progression shy of that in return for the benefits of more Charisma and equipping a shield throughout your career.
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