D&D 5E [GUIDE] NADRIGOL's Melee Bladesinger Guide

RogueJK

It's not "Rouge"... That's makeup.
Taking levels of anything before you get to Bladesinger 6 for extra attack will weaken you by dealying an already delayed "5th" level power bump. As well as 3rd level spells like Haste. I could see starting with one level of fighter for CON saves, but anything more wait until later.

You can lean on Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade to help bridge the gap left by the delayed Extra Attack. Same as any other gish build that doesn't get Extra Attack, like an Arcane Trickster Rogue, a Paladin2/SorcererX, a Hexblade Tomelock, a melee Arcana Cleric, etc. BB/GFB's extra damage scales with character level, not class level, and helps keep your melee damage in line overall with Extra Attack progression. (Albeit a bit more "swingy", since you're relying on just one attack to either hit for a bunch or miss altogether, so it's all or nothing).

However, I'll concede that the delay to 3rd level spells like Haste is a bit more troublesome. You have to ensure that the 1-4ish level dip is worth the cost of delaying your higher level spells, or at least have another dedicated buffer in the party. (Besides, it's better for a melee combatant to be Hasted than to Haste themselves, as it lessens the chance of losing Concentration.)

I've played an Arcane Trickster/Bladesinger from Level 3 (2/1) through Level 10 (3/7) to good effect, without feeling delayed/underpowered. Booming Blade made a noticeable difference, and synergizes well with the Rogue's Bonus Action Disengage too.

So provided you're dipping into something directly useful to your Bladesinger side, like Fighter 1, Rogue 3, or Artificer 3, the delay can still be worthwhile.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

delph

Explorer
Feat is Warcaster so i can use wepons.
Why waste a feat on expertise when you can use rogues o_O?
You didn't read it well. I use Rogue for expertize. Observant was for next pasive bonus for perception and investigation. And for +1 Int. So if you have Vuman you can add those twice +1 to somewhere else then Int and still you will have +3 in Int. stat.
 

NADRIGOL

Explorer
Hello all!

I'm back! For a bit anyways. I've updated my main post to address the fact that I am revisiting the guide to incorporate the very significant changes Tasha's has brought to the Bladesinger.

To summarize, the changes to Extra Attack make the subclass very strong. It provides a significant melee damage buff to the Bladesinger. It also means that the fighter-multi-class, two-weapon-fighting, haste-focused build that this guide previously focused on is no longer dominant. It hasn't gotten any weaker... it's just that other builds have closed the gap. And this makes the multi-classing trade-offs much more of a personal preference than a build tier list differentiator.

So with that in mind, I am updating the guide. There will be content addition (which I have not done yet) and updates to the old content for the TCE rules changes. I've already made updates to most of what I think needed rewriting. The spreadsheet and the specific damage tables in the guide are updated. Most of the build write-ups and specific feature and multi-class evaluations are updated. Right now, it very much feels like a guide that was written one way and then revised for the new rules. I've realized this probably makes sense for me, given I am transitioning rules, but not to newcomers who only care about the most recent rules. So I will probably clean it up more soon. I will spend less time throughout the guide addressing the SCAG vs TCE differences. I will probably just leave a single write-up in the opening, and then write the rest of the guide from the TCE point of view.

If there is significant interest in the original SCAG version of the guide, voice it soon, and I can perhaps dig back through version history and post a pre-TCE version of the guide separately.

If anyone has new feedback on the guide based on my TCE updates, please share. No need to point out missing content, I am working on that next. But if you think evaluations need altering because of the new rules, it's time for that discussion. Very interested to hear experiences from those playtesting the new version as well, since I have not had the privilege.

Cheers!
 

Nod_Hero

Explorer
So with that in mind, I am updating the guide. There will be content addition (which I have not done yet) and updates to the old content for the TCE rules changes.

If anyone has new feedback on the guide based on my TCE updates, please share. No need to point out missing content, I am working on that next.
Not as much pointing out as curious:
1) Will you be reviewing the Race section with movable Ability Score Increases and Custom Lineage included?
Seems like it would significantly change some of your ratings.

2) Artificer dip? It's widely available now.
I started my Tabaxi Bladesinger as a level 1 Artificer for the Con save proficiency and the playstyle so far has been fun. Having access to Guidance, Thornwhip, Cure Wounds, and Faerie Fire has increased my value to the party. Cure Wounds delivered by a Find Familiar? Yes, please!
 
Last edited:

Ashraa

First Post
Hello all!

I'm back! For a bit anyways. I've updated my main post to address the fact that I am revisiting the guide to incorporate the very significant changes Tasha's has brought to the Bladesinger.

To summarize, the changes to Extra Attack make the subclass very strong. It provides a significant melee damage buff to the Bladesinger. It also means that the fighter-multi-class, two-weapon-fighting, haste-focused build that this guide previously focused on is no longer dominant. It hasn't gotten any weaker... it's just that other builds have closed the gap. And this makes the multi-classing trade-offs much more of a personal preference than a build tier list differentiator.

So with that in mind, I am updating the guide. There will be content addition (which I have not done yet) and updates to the old content for the TCE rules changes. I've already made updates to most of what I think needed rewriting. The spreadsheet and the specific damage tables in the guide are updated. Most of the build write-ups and specific feature and multi-class evaluations are updated. Right now, it very much feels like a guide that was written one way and then revised for the new rules. I've realized this probably makes sense for me, given I am transitioning rules, but not to newcomers who only care about the most recent rules. So I will probably clean it up more soon. I will spend less time throughout the guide addressing the SCAG vs TCE differences. I will probably just leave a single write-up in the opening, and then write the rest of the guide from the TCE point of view.

If there is significant interest in the original SCAG version of the guide, voice it soon, and I can perhaps dig back through version history and post a pre-TCE version of the guide separately.

If anyone has new feedback on the guide based on my TCE updates, please share. No need to point out missing content, I am working on that next. But if you think evaluations need altering because of the new rules, it's time for that discussion. Very interested to hear experiences from those playtesting the new version as well, since I have not had the privilege.

Cheers!
Narigold, first I want to thank you for your work, Blasinger is my favorite style of play since AD&D 2ndE and I was very disapointed on how the class was built on 5E.

If possible I would like your considerations first on the Shadow Blade spell for Bladesinger, the new description for Bladesong does not word it as as concentrarion effect so one could fight with bladesong while adding a concentration spell (like Shadow Blade).
On the same note, what about a 3/4 dip in Assasin, with 6 levels of BS, we have the potential of a very high dmg opening attack with the combination Shadowblade > GreenFlame> Sneak attack 100% crit Assasinate.
 

TheOneGargoyle

Explorer
NADRIGOL, thank you for your brilliant work and your peerless guide. I love bladesingers and your guide significantly contributes to the community 😁

I personally can't wait to play a bladesinger with the new TCE changes and I'll most likely be using your guide to help inform my choice as to which variant I play.

If you're taking requests, here are some of my top ones please :
1) While getting the bonus dmg from BB/GFB is certainly nice when it happens, for me it just doesn't seem to happen often enough for me to truly consider it "at will" (maybe i should hand in my power gamers card ?) - any chance of having the tables show DPR calcs when you don't get it?
2) Would love it if you could contrast Haste with a couple of other popular options for concentration slot such as Shadowblade & the new TCE spell Spirit Shroud. Or do you still feel Haste is flat out superior?
3) Since you're updating the guide for TCE anyway, would you rate the new Custom Heritage which gives the starting feat like Vuman, and do you think it's a valid interpretation to say you resemble an Elf to qualify for Elven Accuracy?

Thanks in advance for any or all of these!
 

Sanojo

Villager
So, I haven't played since 2nd edition but have been reading a lot about 5e. I'm about to join a campaign with my dm back in the day. I love the bladesinger but curious about opinions on the following multiclasses...artificer battlesmith 3/bladesinger x - int to weapon/"familiar" steel defender for disadvantage. Artificer armorer 3/bladesinger x - thunder gauntlets d8 two weapon fighting with int, draw aggro thru disadvantage to enemies attacks except you combined with booming blade or infiltrator advantage on stealth. Or twilight cleric 2/bladesinger x for dim light for shadowblade and temp hp, advantage on initiative. Thanks
 

Sanojo

Villager
Also, does the twilight cleric bladesinger benefit more by going elf (eladrin, high or shadar kai)for elven accuracy or vhuman to take advantage of the dark vision and a feat?
 
Last edited:

Sanojo

Villager
Hi, what do you think of a twilight cleric 2/bladesinger x? I know you don't benefit from the armor, but you can get advantage on initiative, dark vision, temp hit points, and dim light for the shadowblade.
 

Hi, what do you think of a twilight cleric 2/bladesinger x? I know you don't benefit from the armor, but you can get advantage on initiative, dark vision, temp hit points, and dim light for the shadowblade.

It's probably a pretty strong choice for a Bladesinger Cleric build, but Bladesingers are already MAD without also needing a minimum 13 Wisdom to multiclass. I think the first level pays off better than the second, with the dark vision and initiative advantage.

The second level mainly just adds the channel divinity. Nothing in the text of the ability says it magically mutes light down to dim, just that it creates dim light within a 30 foot sphere. I think most tables are going to assume light works in a rough approximation of its normal, real world, additive manner, such that adding dim light to bright light does not create a dim light condition for Shadow Blade. If it did there would presumably be language about it keeping out nonmagical light as there are in certain other spells and effects. Even if you get a ruling in your favor, a Bladesinger already has lots of action to activate buffing options. At some point you have to start using your actions to swing that weapon.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Upcoming Releases

Top