D&D 5E [GUIDE] NADRIGOL's Melee Bladesinger Guide

NADRIGOL

Explorer
Just to let you knwo, the public copy shows a dialog that

"File is in the owner's trash
You will soon loose permanent access to this file. For continued access please make a copy"

(And, of course, it's not editable.)

Thanks for the heads up. I've double checked the file. It's definitely not in my trash. Nor is anything related in my trash. I've double checked the share permissions, and updated the link in the first post with a new share link from the document (didn't check if it was a different URL...).

Let me know if anyone else has similar issues.
 

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Magiathrandil

First Post
OK in my rush to build a BS for a 3 session one shot that started at level three I've gone straight BS missing the build suggestion to start fighter dip at one - oh well, if we level I'll go fighter 1 to grab dual wield and short swords. I was able to roll really well on abilities with a variant human build and war caster right off the bat. 18 dex & 18 int... I held off a CR 4 orc war chief for 4 rounds toe to toe using shield spell when needed while the two other PC's whiddled him and his followers down. That levitate spell suggestion was AWESOME, I levitated the chief 50' up and dropped him for 5d6 and wrecking him. Super fun, will hopefully do the build more strictly going forward, thanks for all the work and sharing! I also took rapier at the start and noticed the low dpr I was going to be stuck with as a single wield weapon, can't pick up an offhand since Rapier choice locked me to a non-light main hand, screwed the pooch there and the guidance in the document makes total sense... Dual Wield feat looks tempting even with the doc suggestion against it with an fighter 1 dip.
 

NADRIGOL

Explorer
OK in my rush to build a BS for a 3 session one shot that started at level three I've gone straight BS missing the build suggestion to start fighter dip at one - oh well, if we level I'll go fighter 1 to grab dual wield and short swords. I was able to roll really well on abilities with a variant human build and war caster right off the bat. 18 dex & 18 int... I held off a CR 4 orc war chief for 4 rounds toe to toe using shield spell when needed while the two other PC's whiddled him and his followers down. That levitate spell suggestion was AWESOME, I levitated the chief 50' up and dropped him for 5d6 and wrecking him. Super fun, will hopefully do the build more strictly going forward, thanks for all the work and sharing! I also took rapier at the start and noticed the low dpr I was going to be stuck with as a single wield weapon, can't pick up an offhand since Rapier choice locked me to a non-light main hand, screwed the pooch there and the guidance in the document makes total sense... Dual Wield feat looks tempting even with the doc suggestion against it with an fighter 1 dip.

Sounds like a good time! Honestly, for something short at lower level, pure BS can often be more fun just due to the increased spell access. If you get a fourth level and aren't expecting to reach fifth, that fighter level could definitely be a better time though! All credit to TheBigHouse for the levitate wisdom.
 

delph

Explorer
Hi, i have to prepare backup character in case of death of first one. I was wandering around many.. And stop before hexbladesinger. Using int+char. What do you think about IT?
 

NADRIGOL

Explorer
Hi, i have to prepare backup character in case of death of first one. I was wandering around many.. And stop before hexbladesinger. Using int+char. What do you think about IT?

So I haven't spent any real time with XGE. At first glance, Hexblade obviously looks awesome. I've seen several forum posts where people complain about the Hexblade's power level, specifically as a one level dip since it's so front-loaded. I don't think it's that amazing.

Hexblade's Curse is the real reason to take this dip and is better than Hex/Hunter's Mark... somewhat true.
-The bonus damage is actually worse than Hex (3.5) on average until 9th level when your proficiency bonus reaches +4, but late game scaling was something those spells were lacking, and the Curse damage is more consistent.
-It's also concentration free, which is awesome. Like, the real reason to consider this dip. Bonus damage on every attack, which can be active while Haste is active is great.
-It's still a BA... which means your first three rounds of combat BA's are probably Bladesong, Curse, Hex... and you're not doing extra attacks until round 3 or 4 (depending on whether you Hex). Amazing when you anticipate combat, slightly slow when you're thrown into things.
-The critical hit bonus is probably solid. I haven't done that math.
-The bonus healing is only alright. It's only going to happen once per short rest by definition, but that's still helpful considering your overall low health and focus on damage prevention.
-Can only be used once per short rest. Cannot be transferred to new targets. This makes it very Nova-esque. Useless in horde fights, and you'll have to worry about whether you should be saving it for the next fight whenever you find a strong single target. That makes it a little DM/Campaign dependent. I realized this late in writing this reply, and I can't emphasize this point enough.

Hex Warrior is odd...
-The proficiencies shouldn't matter. You can't use the armor/shield, and you'll have gained your one relevant martial item proficiency from Bladesong.
-Charisma based attack and damage... First off, it applies to one single weapon, not one type of weapon, so that weakens duel wielding unless you are blessed with god stats. Duel wielding was our method of getting more hits in, accentuating the damage of Song of Victory, Hex, Curse, and any other "when you deal damage" bonuses.

Building Int+Cha in general is still questionable. You're going to use Cha for your attack and damage now, great. Maybe it will benefit a couple Warlock spells and the odd save; that's not a lot to make a core stat change for an optional feature. Dex is still a massive stat. Melee Bladesinger builds work largely in part to the huge AC and access to damage prevention. Dex is still a huge part of your AC, and it's your Initiative (which is important to get your defense on early in combat). It's also the save for many AOE based damages, which is one of your biggest weaknesses.

I think if I were doing this dip I would still dump Cha, and build Dex+Int. The only thing Cha needs to impact is the healing from Hexblade's Curse. Of the potentially interesting first level Warlock spells the two most promising (Armor of Agathys and Hex) don't require Cha.

Really you're just dipping to gain Curse and Hex, and otherwise building the same. Compare this directly with a Fighter dip for example. Ignoring the save, HP, and Second Wind (no small boons) we're basically comparing Two-Weapon Fighting with Curse.
TWF
-adds ability based damage (likely more (3-4) early game and less (4-5) late game, can be manipulated)
-only adds to off-hand attacks (typically just one attack per round, intrinsically tied to BA)
-is passively active always
-applies to any target
-only a damage buff
Curse
-adds proficiency based damage (likely less (2) early game and more (6) late game, cannot be manipulated)
-adds to every attack (up to maybe four attacks late game, doesn't require BA)
-requires BA to activate
-restricted to your curse target
-also an attack (critical) and healing buff
Hex
-adds fixed necrotic damage (no scaling)
-adds to every attack
-requires BA to activate
-restricted to spell target (can transfer on death)
-small save related buff
Looks like an overall winfor Curse+Hex, but don't let the BA to activate slip past you... You have so many cool BA's, and this adds a second/third, basically mandatory, one to the start of every combat.

If Curse was transferable like Hex, it would probably be broken (and that is why it's baked into the 14th level Hexblade class feature). As it is, this is a overpowered, less accessible Hex. It certainly makes the dip more appealing than it previously was, but not particularly amazing I think. I think I would probably rate the first level dip Sky blue, but I've also been considering Blue as I write it.
 


delph

Explorer
@NADRIGOL Hexbladesinger is gone. I'v done High Elven Fighter 1/ Bladesinger 2 (fighter first for con saves)
On first ASi I'll take elven accuracy (dex 17 -> 18, with familiar for help action I belive it's great choice)

Now I have a crucial question for me: How work Green Flame Blade with dual wielding or with extra attack? I'm affraid when I cast GFB, I can't do extra attack and not sure about offhand attack with DW.

And in another thread where was talking about sorc vs wiz I suggest 3 lvl Sorc to take metamagic. How will work quickened or twined spell with GFB and attacks (Can I do 2 melee attack's with GFB without having extra attack or DW?
 

Adamant

Explorer
@NADRIGOL Hexbladesinger is gone. I'v done High Elven Fighter 1/ Bladesinger 2 (fighter first for con saves)
On first ASi I'll take elven accuracy (dex 17 -> 18, with familiar for help action I belive it's great choice)

Now I have a crucial question for me: How work Green Flame Blade with dual wielding or with extra attack? I'm affraid when I cast GFB, I can't do extra attack and not sure about offhand attack with DW.

And in another thread where was talking about sorc vs wiz I suggest 3 lvl Sorc to take metamagic. How will work quickened or twined spell with GFB and attacks (Can I do 2 melee attack's with GFB without having extra attack or DW?
You are right about GFB not letting you do extra attack or DW attack, the guide suggests using haste to get around that by using the haste attack to proc DW. Twinned spell doesn't work with GFB/Booming Blade because they have a range of self, but quickened would let you do two attacks. For your build, since you aren't taking war caster I suggest not going DW because you won't be able to cast shield/absorb elements. No opinion on anything else, but you may want to consider a second level in fighter at some point for action surge. It lets you cast two spells in the same turn, since neither of them are bonus actions you can do things like double fireball or hold person/monster+disintegrate.

I'm currently going a different direction, ignoring elven accuracy, familiar shenanigans, and even int boosts for fighter 2, war caster, and mobile. Currently level 7, but haven't played at that level yet. The plan is the haste suggestion in the guide, very focused on multiple attacks and using spells mainly for aoe, ranged combat, and defense.
 
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delph

Explorer
You are right about GFB not letting you do extra attack or DW attack, the guide suggests using haste to get around that by using the haste attack to proc DW. Twinned spell doesn't work with GFB/Booming Blade because they have a range of self, but quickened would let you do two attacks. For your build, since you aren't taking war caster I suggest not going DW because you won't be able to cast shield/absorb elements. No opinion on anything else, but you may want to consider a second level in fighter at some point for action surge. It lets you cast two spells in the same turn, since neither of them are bonus actions you can do things like double fireball or hold person/monster+disintegrate.
In lvl5 (1+4) when i can take warcaster to be able cast without free hand, does GFB 1k6+weapon damage+DEX + one other creature 1k6+INT , that is almost same as DWF and on higher lvls stronger. I belive TWF isnt much stronger...

Sorc 3+BS X - it's quite nice. Using quickened spell on cantrip cost you only 1 SP, but give much more fun.

And by the way in my learning about DnD I'v read about monk kensei, and 3 lvls maybe doesn't be waste. "If you make unarmed strike as part of your attack action, and are holding kensei melee weapon You gain +2 AC until start your next turn.
wasting skills for wisdom isn't necessary becose mage armor will be better than monks unarmored defence, but almost in every round have +2 without needing reaction, "real shield in second hand" With active BS give me AC 13 +3 Dex +3 Int +2 without any ASI (and with use every ASI to DEX and INT will be base AC 25 with shield 30... maybe it worth take feat lucky - to get out enemi's crits... 24 is still enought
EDIT: or use bonus action to dodge can avoid his crits, but you need do it before his turn, and deflect missiles without spending ki point or slots for shield...
 

delph

Explorer
I'm here again. My main char still alive, so I can think about my (backup char) Bladesinger free. What about Monk Kensei to dip? Fighting with one hand sword, and second for martial art and casting. If I use BA for MA attack I'l gett +2 AC for my next turn (as i get shield to hand, but without penalize bladesingign)
 

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