Gunpowder, fantasy and you

Generally speaking, do muskets mix with fantasy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 103 45.6%
  • No

    Votes: 41 18.1%
  • It's not that simple

    Votes: 82 36.3%

  • Poll closed .
Do you generally like gunpowder weapons in a fantasy setting? Of course if you play steampunk or some other bit more futuristic fantasy, gunpowder is natural addition but how about in a more standard fantasy setting? FR, Greyhawk, Eberron... Do you avoid it at all cost or find it as a flavorful part of the setting?

It's a flavor thing for me but no, I don't allow them. No steam engines either. In years gone past I would usually make them explicitly not function in my world. My gaming group doesn't like them either so these days, I don't even worry much about whether they could work if they were ever invented or not, although if push came to shove I would probably have the physics of the world not support it (hey, the world allows magic and flying dragons, so clearly, it isn't earth physics.)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

The more I read about historical combat, the more surprised I am at what ages they turn up. When reading The Hussite Wars, these series of crusades take place through 1419-1436. Lots of guns of various types in play according to the author. And YET, one of the most famous heroes is Jan Zizka who is depicted in several statues, with one eye and a mace.

To me, there appears to be room both guns if theGM is willing to accomadate them.

And Sunswords. Don't forget the Sunswords.
 

My crew has the very awesome fan-made martial controller Guerilla as a standard class. Plus, my group doesnt know it yet but they are right about to get to a huge city of industrious hobgoblins and humans, absolutely famous for making the best rifles in the world. I just dont see the issue with guns in a fantasy setting. In any historically accurate setting it'd be nuts, but in our high fantasy setting? It's whatever man. We already got sky pirates, magic trains and talking weapons so whats wrong with a couple kobolds with sniper rifles? Considering how awesome "kobolds with sniper rifles" sounds, I'm gonna say not a thing.
 

Ah yes, Fantasy Gun Control again.

The biggest problem with firearms isn't guns, muskets, or the like but barrels of gunpowder. If you introduce the gun, you also introduce 'put 100lbs of gunpowder under the problem and light a match'.

That can be a problem, but probably the DM should make the effects similar to a 10d6 fireball.

The main reason why people don't "mix" guns with fantasy?

Gun rules are convoluted. I bet if the rules for guns were traditionally simpler, like say as simple as using a crossbow, then they would be more accepted. It's really the same problem grapples and the katana have had for so long.

If anything most people can tolerate "point and click" guns in fantasy, just look at WoW.

This could be it too, but I think Gary is largely to blame here, what with banning guns and gunpowder in Greyhawk. I think a lot of players do it simply because he did. Guns exist normally enough in the other tradtional kitchen sink settings, Mystara and the Realms, so it's not like they're that out of place.

Really, the rules could be simple. The gun fouls on a 1 and needs to be cleaned before reuse. What's a realistic time for cleaning a black powder weapon? Maybe the smoke adds temporary concealment. Certainly the noise should kill any attempts at stealth, though any sustained combat really should be noisy enough to do that. Keep them simple, the damage relatively moderate, and they should be fine.
 

This could be it too, but I think Gary is largely to blame here, what with banning guns and gunpowder in Greyhawk. I think a lot of players do it simply because he did. Guns exist normally enough in the other tradtional kitchen sink settings, Mystara and the Realms, so it's not like they're that out of place.

I don't think that is much of a factor at all. I've always banned guns, never played Grayhawk and didn't realize he banned it there (nor do I really care one way or the other).

It's really pretty simple why I and I'd venture many ban guns: guns aren't in my concept of high fantasy. I don't recall any guns in LOTR. Many people want to capture that feel or something along those lines, or high middle ages or some other setting that doesn't have guns in it. Moreover, guns both feel "modern" and therefore detract from these high fantasy settings or pose a whole range of problems for world creation (if there are guns and gun powder, why are there castles? In the real world, castles went bye-bye fairly shortly after cannons showed up.)

Now that's not to say you can't have a fun setting with them in there but for people who choose to omit them, I really doubt it is due to setting created a very long time ago.
 

Guns are radically effective against armor. Except... breastplates and full plate will stop them, so they shouldn't get a bonus against that type of armor. So, what we need is a special chart that compares weapon type to armor worn... :)
Actually... they aren't much good at ignoring armor. Modern weapons are, but the guns of the 15th - early 19th centuries were not much like modern guns at all, in that regard. Heck, a 18th C. Australian outlaw managed pretty well with a suit of homemade plate, for a time. (Ned Kelly.)

In fact smoothbore guns are worse against armor than a crossbow. A crossbow pretty much ignores everything except plate - and with a square or triangular headed bolt will ignore that pretty well too, though makes a smaller wound. The problem is that heavy crossbows are ssslllooowww, much slower than even a muzzle loading gun.

One of my hobbies is firing blackpowder weapons - and there are things that are seldom addressed by games. Smoke is very thick, and on a foggy day hangs around for a long time, and gives you a wicked cough. The stuff smells like rotten eggs. (I typically call it 'The Devil's Own Flatulence.')

From experience:
A bullet would do a better job of blowing through a 1 inch thick board than a crossbow, but a crossbow bolt would go through a quarter inch of steel that would bounce the bullet right off.

You can fire a wax candle through a 1 inch board using a smoothbore, and the candle wil remain largely intact, and can still be lit. I kind of expected it to go 'splut'. :)

I knew someone who was present when someone ended up with a freakin hot dog through his arm, the idiot firing it expecting it to go 'splut'.

The lesson here? Things fired from a gun don't go 'splut'!

I have had almost no experience with either match or wheellock, mostly I have used the much, much more reliable flintlock. (Flintlocks were cheaper, faster, and more reliable than wheellocks - there's a reason that they spread so fast.)

My favorite gun is the Land Pattern Musket, or Brown Bess. Under field conditions the Bess would fail one out of sixteen shots, but since I have always had time to properly clean between each shot, I have never had a shot fail. (Or, to put it another way, I have never fired the gun under real field conditions - where you just don't have time to clean your gun properly.) A friend of mine has a Bess that saw over a century of service - what you might call a reliable weapon, if you were given to understatement.

The balls are big, and slow, and soft by modern standards - not much good for popping armor, but what it could do to bone was not pretty. Bones would not just be broken, but pulverized. (This got worse, right up into the ACW - in the ACW sometimes the bone was so damaged that amputation was the only option.)

Good plate was most often 'proofed' - the armor smith loading a pistol, taking ten steps back, then firing at the armor. The resulting spall was often decorated. The aror was 'bullet proofed'. :) (Yes, that's where the phrase comes from.)

On the other hand, there is a reason chain went away - the links would be driven into the flesh, and the wounds were much more likely to become infected as a result. Though I seem to recall a Polish factory making the stuff until around 1910.

The most common armor in the Reformation/Counter-Reformation was a leather coat - it didn't do much to stop a bullet, but helped against things like the large splinters that would be thrown out when a bullet or cannon ball hit wood - the incidental damage from flying debris was actually a more common hazard than the ball itself.

If a soldier was going to wear anything more it was often a placart, a belly plate to prevent gut wounds - the most certain way to die in battle. Tassets were nice, but the gut was what worried folks.

So, I go with high damage, a x3 critical modifier, but don't use any special rules for ignoring armor - 'cause it doesn't.

The Auld Grump, who feels that guns and D&D get along just fine....
 

That can be a problem, but probably the DM should make the effects similar to a 10d6 fireball.
Even more fun is using a 10d6 fireball on someone with 100lbs of gunpowder.... :devil:

Look up what happened in London during the Year of the Eights when a powder warehouse blew on Dock 1(?). Set off by a main with hobnailed boos on metal stairs.... You don't need a fireball to set the stuff off. :)

The Auld Grump
 

Piratecat used gunpowder in his 4e campaign.

He set the damage equal to an encounter ability of the PC's level. I believe it was per barrel, but I don't think the damage overlapped, just areas.

I suspect the 10d6 odd figures are for 3.x.
 

We had a joke last night about the demonic gunpowder used in the weapons bay on an astrochelonian battle station.

"Elemental gunpowder, you say?"
"Yup."
"From the elemental plane of gunpowder?"
"Yup."
"Wow. That must've been the shortest-lived elemental plane in history."

Brad
 

It's really pretty simple why I and I'd venture many ban guns: guns aren't in my concept of high fantasy. I don't recall any guns in LOTR. Many people want to capture that feel or something along those lines, or high middle ages or some other setting that doesn't have guns in it. Moreover, guns both feel "modern" and therefore detract from these high fantasy settings or pose a whole range of problems for world creation (if there are guns and gun powder, why are there castles? In the real world, castles went bye-bye fairly shortly after cannons showed up.)

Actually, when guns came onto the scene, castles first got very large. And guess what? We still build castles now. We just call them forts, or bases, or security zones.
 

Remove ads

Top