Gunslingers in Your World? It's More Likely Than You Think

[Jackinthegreen]

High magic worlds could easily create them if there was a demand. And there likely would be since even when magic can solve everything there will likely be things a good old pistol would be more efficient at. Yes, I'm a bit of a gun nut. lol

 

[Sekhmet]

Try thinking about it this way:

The United States has access to SEALs, Rangers, Force Recon, Delta Force, The Activity, DEVGRU, 24th STS, Green Berets, <insert ten more here>, along with Marines, Soldiers, and Sailors.

We'll call the Special Operations Forces "Wizards", and the regulars "Firearms".
Why do we mostly use Firearms for the day to day matters of combat and warfare?

They're easier to train, easier to outfit, and easier to replace.
This holds perfectly true for Wizards/Firearms, and low-magic communities still need a way to defend themselves, especially if they're bordered by a high-magic community.

[MENTION=6678119]Jackinthegreen[/MENTION] Most gun nuts I've known served at one point. You?

 

[Nebten]

Looks like some people already agree with you:

Gunslinger - Pathfinder_OGC

Also to note, almost every class as a firearm using archetype. One already mentioned above is the Paladin's Holy Gun.

There is also a reason as to why firearms came to be as well: Alkenstar - PathfinderWiki

I don't like random gun use in D&D, but give me a good enough story, I'll bite. Remember Giffs and Spelljammer?

[sblock=Giff]

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[Greenfield]

I think it touches on the essence of epic fantasy, as portrayed by D&D.

Player characters are special. They're better than normal people.

Think about it: Why would anyone ever become a Warrior when the Fighter class exists? Why become an Expert when the Rogue class exists? Why become an Adept, when the Wizard, Sorcerer and Cleric classes exist? Why become a Commoner when *any* other class exists?

The entire game revolves around the idea that PCs are better than everyone else.

Now introduce the handgun, the famous "Equalizer", the weapon that lets anyone at all, of any level, wield deadly power.

If I had to represent firearms in the game, and I knew nothing of the existing gunpowder rules, I'd give them short range increment, but have them strike as Ranged Touch attacks, because of their ability to rip holes in armor.

Giving that kind of combat power to just any one obviates the entire class/level approach to granting power, an approach that is basic to D&D. Foundational, even.

Whether you allow for mass production or require each gun to be a masterworked piece of craftsmanship is irrelevant. Guns don't just blow holes in armor, they blow holes in the entire structure of the fantasy world.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

@Jackinthegreen Most gun nuts I've known served at one point. You?

I can't serve in the US armed forces due to a heart condition.

[MENTION=95351]Omegaxicor[/MENTION] Comparatively speaking, yes I am only a bit of a gun nut. I've only used my dad's firearms and I couldn't tell you which one I was most comfortable with because I haven't committed them memory. Most of my "nuttiness" comes from my gun rights stance, which is a subject we won't get into in this topic.

As for guns blowing a hole in the typical fantasy setting, they also blew a hole through the classic medieval warfare we typically think about. Having them exist in any significant quantity would typically screw with the setting, yet not having them exist at all essentially suggests the minds of the time hadn't yet thought about a "better crossbow."

Would it invalidate heavy armor though? I'm not so sure given the way magic has ways of fixing things. There would certainly be some caster who creates a spell that protects specifically against firearms just like there are spells or other effects that protect against arrows, bolts, and Magic Missile.

 

[SethDrebitko]

I am going to have to agree with delericho about guns being acceptable during specific instances.

I also HATE that when guns are used in fantasy it is because the creators lived in a magic dead zone. I don't foresee any issues with adding guns when appropriate but I don't think a GM should have to feel the need to add them just because a character wants it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

My thoughts exactly, who would make a gun when s/he can buy a scroll of magic missile...

I didn't see this mentioned: because the person in question can't use magic missile scrolls.

SRD

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
The user must have the requisite ability score.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

I didn't see this mentioned: because the person in question can't use magic missile scrolls.

That and those who would probably gain the most benefit from UMD are many who don't have it on their class skill list. Fighters and monks come to mind.

 

[trancejeremy]

You know, the thing with old time guns is that I can't believe people could get enough practice in to be really good shots.

I've shot probably twenty thousand rounds with a revolver and I can generally get 3-4 shots into a soda can at 30 feet on average.

That's nothing (on both counts) to what really good shooters can do.

I just don't see how in a pre-industrial age, they could produce enough ammo and such to let people truly become great marksmen (some of it is inborn talent but practice is a big part, too). Even just how they worked, having to be slowly reloaded. Not until the revolver could you have reasonably rapid fire, and not until metallic cartridges were invented could you re-load reasonably quick

I mean, heck, even the famed Musketeers mostly fought with swords. That's about as high as D&D tech goes, IMHO.

 

[Samloyal23]

You know, the thing with old time guns is that I can't believe people could get enough practice in to be really good shots.

I've shot probably twenty thousand rounds with a revolver and I can generally get 3-4 shots into a soda can at 30 feet on average.

That's nothing (on both counts) to what really good shooters can do.

I just don't see how in a pre-industrial age, they could produce enough ammo and such to let people truly become great marksmen (some of it is inborn talent but practice is a big part, too). Even just how they worked, having to be slowly reloaded. Not until the revolver could you have reasonably rapid fire, and not until metallic cartridges were invented could you re-load reasonably quick

I mean, heck, even the famed Musketeers mostly fought with swords. That's about as high as D&D tech goes, IMHO.

Before the 19th Century firearms were notoriously inaccurate. The reason they were deadly in warfare was that troops marched in formation. Shoot into a crowd and you're bound to his someone, but odds are it will not be the person you aimed at!