GURPS 4e
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jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
I own a lot of the books, plus some of the PDF-only supplements, but my only actual play experience with 4e has been via GURPS Lite 4e — and I was not very impressed. GURPS Lite 3e is a much more complete game, I think (or at least it seems that way). Now, granted, judging the full system on a quick play rule set is hardly fair, but if GURPS Lite 4e is supposed to do the larger rule system justice, it fails miserably.
darjr
I crit!
I have. Third as well. I was in a Buck Rogers game that was a blast. A bit of a fantasy game or two. I've run Traveller GURPS 4e in the old universe and various other things. I've played it a ton at conventions and run it at conventions. I have a friend that took it and made a pseudo paranoia type space marine assault board game.
A friend of my son has rolled a Cthulhu Early Roman campaign that we're trying to schedule and get off the ground.
For me GURPS 4e went to far into the complex ruleset, so my advice is to take what you need and forget the rest. Then, as you want, bring in the other rules. I think GURPS 4e works pretty good stripped down.
I'm not a great fan of the 'light' version, I think they should revisit that.
A friend of my son has rolled a Cthulhu Early Roman campaign that we're trying to schedule and get off the ground.
For me GURPS 4e went to far into the complex ruleset, so my advice is to take what you need and forget the rest. Then, as you want, bring in the other rules. I think GURPS 4e works pretty good stripped down.
I'm not a great fan of the 'light' version, I think they should revisit that.
pawsplay
Hero
I like the rules changes, for the most part. Particularly, the skills system has been revamped to focus on skills used in adventuring, with hobbies and obscure specialities being sidelined to "roll your own" categories like Hobby, Expert, and so forth. Advantages have been vastly refined, and attacks are better balanced against defenses. Scaling is better, fixing large animal stats, and making 4e the first edition that can really handle supers. Combat is smoother, special cases are rarer, benchmarks are clearer.
I am also really impressed by the meatiness of the 4e line of supplements. Powers lets you do almost anything imaginable for a supers game, while Fantasy and Supers plumb those genres with thoroughness and many helpful observations, as well as mechanical help. I like the revised TLs in High-Tecn and Ultra-Tech.
I am also really impressed by the meatiness of the 4e line of supplements. Powers lets you do almost anything imaginable for a supers game, while Fantasy and Supers plumb those genres with thoroughness and many helpful observations, as well as mechanical help. I like the revised TLs in High-Tecn and Ultra-Tech.
Nikosandros
Golden Procrastinator
I believe that 4e is a vast improvement, but I admit that my playing experience with it is somewhat limited and my experience as a GM with it is with just one adventure.
Aurumvorax
First Post
4E broadened the skill list by removing the really narrow ones that were pretty specific to a certain world or genre. In effect, the game is more universal than 3E is/was. They toned down a lot of the occupation specific skills as well (which is good because I'm a firm believer that occupations should be regulated to role-play, not mechanics) and modified the way some things are handled like strength.
I think it's a cleaner, more concise system. The 4E supplements are almost universally fantastic and I use them for other RPGs.
I think it's a cleaner, more concise system. The 4E supplements are almost universally fantastic and I use them for other RPGs.
Someone needs to cast "Summon Jürgen Hubert" in this thread...he's pretty big on GURPS- especially the new edition- and is keen to elaborate on details of improvements.
Neonchameleon
Legend
Stat buy and skills have definitely been improved - no more break points or Str being as expensive as Dex. I think they shot the Vehicles rules (and good riddance).
I've run fantasy & sci-fi in both 3e & 4e. Most of the time was spent on the 3e side as we began using some OGL systems (Conan most notably) when 4e was introduced.
In my opinion, 4e is a significant improvement over 3e and is a poster-child for what an edition update should look like: clean-up, removal of broken or troublesome mechanics and replacement with cleaner mechanics -- without breaking what came before. I can pull just about any 3e book off my shelf and either use as-is or quickly tweak to conform with 4e changes.
GURPS Challenges:
The #1 challenge for me were learning that while GURPS can do pretty much everything, it's not recommended to try and implement it all Day 1. However, once learned, it runs at the table as smooth or smoother than any other system I've played.
#2 - Campaign Construction. It's not hard, but it can be time consuming. Esp. if you're not taking a default GURPS campaign (there are few true settings to pick from). It can be incredibly rewarding to have a campaign with mechanics that accurately emulate what you envision. However, with all those damn adult responsibilities (work + family), I rarely had the time. Build-as-you-go is probably the best approach, but since GURPS doesn't have a lot of published adventures, it can increase your GM prep-time at the start. (Again, if you let it. I found myself doing it quite a bit.)
#3 - GURPS fanatics. I really hesitated to list this but if I'm being honest it was a factor. I'm not talking about SJGames staff or GURPS authors or even most of the fan community here. Rather, I'm talking about the GURPS fanatics that feel their view is the one-true-way. I know it's the Internet and jackasses can be found anywhere. However, the incident rate where general advice questions are met with "you're doing it wrong", "GURPS isn't designed with that mindset", "why would you do that", etc. is way too high. I also find that 90% of the posts are mechanics-related, even when a post is about campaign ideas & adventures.
Don't misunderstand, though, GURPS is a fantastic game. It's probably my all-time favorite RPG. The sourcebooks are RPG treasure troves of ideas even if you're not using GURPS for your rules set. The game runs smoothly at the table and does, more often than not, produce the desired results - from the very cinematic to the grim-n-gritty.
I just wish it focused more on GM-aid (although Character Builder is a miracle!) so that much of the trial-and-error doesn't have to occur at the gaming table but SJGames seems to be changing that with Dungeon Fantasy & Action PDFs (thanks Kromm!) and that the elitist quiche-eating GURPSians weren't more vocal than the rank-n-file.
In my opinion, 4e is a significant improvement over 3e and is a poster-child for what an edition update should look like: clean-up, removal of broken or troublesome mechanics and replacement with cleaner mechanics -- without breaking what came before. I can pull just about any 3e book off my shelf and either use as-is or quickly tweak to conform with 4e changes.
GURPS Challenges:
The #1 challenge for me were learning that while GURPS can do pretty much everything, it's not recommended to try and implement it all Day 1. However, once learned, it runs at the table as smooth or smoother than any other system I've played.
#2 - Campaign Construction. It's not hard, but it can be time consuming. Esp. if you're not taking a default GURPS campaign (there are few true settings to pick from). It can be incredibly rewarding to have a campaign with mechanics that accurately emulate what you envision. However, with all those damn adult responsibilities (work + family), I rarely had the time. Build-as-you-go is probably the best approach, but since GURPS doesn't have a lot of published adventures, it can increase your GM prep-time at the start. (Again, if you let it. I found myself doing it quite a bit.)
#3 - GURPS fanatics. I really hesitated to list this but if I'm being honest it was a factor. I'm not talking about SJGames staff or GURPS authors or even most of the fan community here. Rather, I'm talking about the GURPS fanatics that feel their view is the one-true-way. I know it's the Internet and jackasses can be found anywhere. However, the incident rate where general advice questions are met with "you're doing it wrong", "GURPS isn't designed with that mindset", "why would you do that", etc. is way too high. I also find that 90% of the posts are mechanics-related, even when a post is about campaign ideas & adventures.
Don't misunderstand, though, GURPS is a fantastic game. It's probably my all-time favorite RPG. The sourcebooks are RPG treasure troves of ideas even if you're not using GURPS for your rules set. The game runs smoothly at the table and does, more often than not, produce the desired results - from the very cinematic to the grim-n-gritty.
I just wish it focused more on GM-aid (although Character Builder is a miracle!) so that much of the trial-and-error doesn't have to occur at the gaming table but SJGames seems to be changing that with Dungeon Fantasy & Action PDFs (thanks Kromm!) and that the elitist quiche-eating GURPSians weren't more vocal than the rank-n-file.
