GURPS - What is it?

[Viking Bastard]

Then add more Attributes. It's what I did and the good thing about it and about GURPS is that the system can take that kinda change without the smallest difficulty.

Very easy to implement.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

It is possible for high natural ability in D&D to affect skill rolls, but to nowhere near this extent, because whereas GURPS has no variable DC's to set (most rolls being "pass/fail", d20 systems do, and while natural talent gets you a long way at first level, at 10th level, it is worth far less than raw skill.

It's true that there's no "DC," but mathematically you achieve the same thing by presenting people with tasks that are sufficiently difficult as impose penalties to skills. Some skills (notably in combat) have standard mechanics for specific tasks, but with respect to other skills, any GM who doesn't set task difficulties to challenge his players has only laziness to blame.

Not that you don't have a point, but the good thing about DC's as a mechanic is just that they don't let you abdicate the responsibility of deciding how difficult a task is.

 

[Cyragnome]

Henry, indeed, I do know what you are saying...Honestly, I'm not trying to convince everyone...not on a d20 board What you are saying is correct, as well, to a point...those skill percentages you describe hold up under "ideal" or average conditions (much like take 10 or take 20) but with appropriate modifiers applied those numbers they would go down reasonably (e.g. a "hard lock" modified at -8). I'll agree that the DC concept is interesting, but it isn't unique to d20 (the worst implementation I've seen was in Traveller 4...blech...half dice to past a task test)...nor is the skill with modifiers unique...they're just a couple of option...as Forest Gump would say "that's all I have to say about that"

 

[bret]

Cyragnome - Here is my biggest problem with GURPS, and one that makes it hard for me to play with:

Take a 100 point character. Give him a 16 Intelligence (cost: 80 points). Spend the other 20 points on various mental skills, but DON'T spend more than one point on each skill.

In most mental skills, he will have a 63% chance to accomplish most tasks.
[ snip ]

That is one of the design philosophies is that very talented people will be better at skills. It is intended that very gifted people be able to master a skill in a shorter time than normal people.

An IQ of 16 is actually very high. If the GM allows it, you could start that high, but in my experience most people don't do that.

 

[reapersaurus]

Then add more Attributes. It's what I did and the good thing about it and about GURPS is that the system can take that kinda change without the smallest difficulty.

Very easy to implement.

hmm.... it seems rather hard to me.

How do you introduce another stat without taking into account that you have the same points to spend on the stats?

Introducing a new stat simply waters down the character's power unless you give more points to compensate.

Then the question is raised: How many more points to give for this new stat?
What about people who will take these points and just use them to crank up their prime stat even MORE? (i.e. use it as a blatant opportunity for min/max?)

 

[Viking Bastard]

Originally posted by reapersaurus

I have no idea what you're talking about...

...too much meta rule talk, head hurts....

...well I'll give it a shot thoug.

hmm.... it seems rather hard to me.

How do you introduce another stat without taking into account that you have the same points to spend on the stats?

Introducing a new stat simply waters down the character's power unless you give more points to compensate.

Then the question is raised: How many more points to give for this new stat?

How many points? Does it matter? Give 'em as many as you feel like for yer campaign. Throw them a thirty maybe? Doesn't really matter overall as long as they all have as many points. No biggie.

What about people who will take these points and just use them to crank up their prime stat even MORE? (i.e. use it as a blatant opportunity for min/max?)

Min/Max-ers are and always will be Min/Max-ers. The problem doesn't lie with the system but the player. There's no system I've seen that stops min/max-ers.

Min/Max has always seemed to me to be more of a DMing responsibility. I've always found pretty hard to min/max GURPS myself (unless maybe if you're going for a total hack n' slah campaign, but I have very little experience with those).

Char generation House Rules I usually used:

The ATTR I added was 'Willpower', I just didn't see what it had to do with IQ.

I crammed a lot of the IQ skills (knowledge skills mostly) into groups. It made things easier playwise. Instead of the dozen or so different Space Navigation skills it was just one etc.

 

[Synicism]

Originally posted by Henry Take a 100 point character. Give him a 16 Intelligence (cost: 80 points). Spend the other 20 points on various mental skills, but DON'T spend more than one point on each skill. In most mental skills, he will have a 63% chance to accomplish most tasks. In any skill he has a single point in, he will have anywhere from a 90% (hard skill) to 98% chance (normal skill) to accomplish most tasks. The same thing can be said about a very physical character with a 17 DEX. Most gun and ranged skills being normal or easy, he will hit 83% of the time without possessing any skill whatsoever! With a high DEX or IQ, skill can be faked in GURPS with natural talent - and this has caused problems for me in the past. It is possible for high natural ability in D&D to affect skill rolls, but to nowhere near this extent, because whereas GURPS has no variable DC's to set (most rolls being "pass/fail", d20 systems do, and while natural talent gets you a long way at first level, at 10th level, it is worth far less than raw skill.

First of all, I disagree that GURPS has no variable difficulties in its rolls. Difficulty is determined by applying a bonus or penalty to a skill or ability check.

Also, because GURPS is a point based system, it theoretically permits players to do exactly what you suggested. Then again, the one time I had players generate characters for a D&D3E game with a point buy, guess what I saw?

You got it - lots and lots of minmaxing. Apparently low-charisma characters flock together. Any time your system allows players to generate their own stats, they will min-max to a certain point.

It's up to you, as the GM, to smack them when they do.

 

[mmadsen]

That is one of the design philosophies is that very talented people will be better at skills. It is intended that very gifted people be able to master a skill in a shorter time than normal people.

That's a legitimate design philosophy, but they didn't price stats appropriately to reflect the huge impact one point of DX or IQ brings -- especially that first +1 (from 10 DX or IQ to 11), since everyone is going to have a fair number of skills they want to be decent at.