Gygax's views on OGL

[Maggan]

However, I think you're seeing less creativity in general.

I don't see that. I have compiled (and posted somewhere on ENWorld, can't remember which thread though) a list of games coming out during 2004 and early 2005, and of these about 79% are non-OGL/d20. The number of games coming out is around 75, which is about the same as to what came out per year before the OGL. Of course, many are rereleases, but that's the game industry for you. If you want the list, I can PM it to you.

Also, "creativity" is not limited to making your own system, creativity can be present in something as small as a 2 page pdf that introduces a new mechanic for D&D, or GURPS or Traveller. There's lots and lots of creativity in the hobby, at least where I'm looking, although that is in my opinion largely due to the Internet and the proliferation of computers, desktop publishing and Internet communities, and not so much the result of the OGL (even though it plays a part in the overall process).

As for major innovations, I think that 30 years of evolution is more to "blame" for the lack of revolutionary ideas in the hobby than the existance of the OGL. A lot of stuff has already been done. It takes more than a new fantasy rpg or a game about vampires to make a mark these days.

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[robberbaron]

Is Gaxy Gygar's latest production (Necropolis or somesuch) not D20, 'cos if it is then he is a big hypocrite, slagging off OGL then using it himself.

So GG is one of the founders of our hobby. So what?
He shouldn't be held up as a paragon of D&D development when he is so obviously out of touch with the game as it is now.

 

[mossfoot]

To say he's "out of touch with the game as is" is unfair and certainly not accurate, concidering he still games on a regular basis. And that is essentially all that is required to be "in touch". It doesn't matter which game engine you're using, an RPG is an RPG.

We're gamers, dammit, not politicians!

The only thing required to be in touch is to game. Gary Gygax and Peter Adkison are both "in touch" because they are both gamers, just because you might not agree with one or the other's opinions and views on the industry means jack. You roll the dice, you play the game, that's all there is to it. Nobody is going to game the exact same way, and nobody is going to have the exact same opinions about gaming.

There is a single truth I've found in life.

It is possible to have two completely opposing and irreconsilable points of view that are both correct in their own way.

Gary made a lot of good points, but I also think OGL has its good points. I can live with that.

As for being a hypocrite, sometimes you have to bite the bullet. If the choices are "publish this as d20 and make a profit" or "publish this as X system and take a loss", what are you going to do? Especially when, as a writer, you are more concerned with the game/adventure content rather than what system it's for. As a writer, he's concerned with publishing his adventures/stories, as a game designer he's concerned with game engines and market image.

My opinion on the question "Does OGL encourage new players?" No. But it does make players who are already interested in gaming have an easier time getting involved.

Also, before OGL there was a Babylon 5 RPG, but it failed (perhaps it should have been called Babylon 3 ). The OGL Babylon 5 seems to be doing well (I have yet to get a copy) and perhaps that says something about the benefits of OGL, because current players aren't daunted by the "oh man, not ANOTHER system to learn" problem. But it still doesn't make current non-gamers more interested in becoming gamers.

edit: additions

 

[robberbaron]

I agree. OGL does the excellent job of allowing people to get their game ideas published without having to create their own systems from scratch.

Sure, some of them may suck but some of them will be classics, much like all the games and supplements ever written (and yes, I also agree that GG's productions may fall into both these categories).

BTW, I meant "out of touch" in the context of slagging off something that seems to be rejuvenating the gaming industry. GG sounded like someone who has let themselves get marginalised and has found he doesn't like it.

On the other hand, I admit that GG has made some stirling efforts in the field of D&D, but so have many others who don't get revered as gaming gods.

Disclaimer: I don't know the man and can only go by the products I've seen and the words he says.

 

[mossfoot]

BTW, I meant "out of touch" in the context of slagging off something that seems to be rejuvenating the gaming industry. GG sounded like someone who has let themselves get marginalised and has found he doesn't like it.

Fair enough. I would have simply said "Seems to be out of touch" rather than "is obviously out of touch". I don't agree, but I can understand the sentiment.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I firmly disagree with Gary Gygax's opinions on nearly everything related to gaming.

 

[Desdichado]

Drawback: In exchange for choice and the ability to say "No" to bad material, you've basically given up the chance to purchase really high quality material. It seems to me, gamers and the hobby would be better served by demanding the company that sells them their core books also produce excellent quality supplements, rather than settling for a wider variety of medium quality ones.

Maybe I need to catch up, but I'm not following this one. Are you saying that 3rd party games are medium quality by default and can't be really high quality? Because I think there are plenty of products on the market that would fly in the face of that logic.

I fail to see how we give up the chance to purchase really high quality material. I've gotten to the point where I only purchase really high quality material.

 

[Desdichado]

I firmly disagree with Gary Gygax's opinions on nearly everything related to gaming.

So do I these days, it seems.

 

[Ottergame]

To say he's "out of touch with the game as is" is unfair and certainly not accurate, concidering he still games on a regular basis.

The problem, however, is that he only games with the material he personally wrote over 20 years ago. That's sorta like a TV marketing exec watching 100 hours of "Howdy Doody" and saying he's in touch with children's programing. That -defines- being out of touch, and it's precisely what is going on.

 

[Grazzt]

The problem, however, is that he only games with the material he personally wrote over 20 years ago. That's sorta like a TV marketing exec watching 100 hours of "Howdy Doody" and saying he's in touch with children's programing. That -defines- being out of touch, and it's precisely what is going on.

I believe I remember Gary saying (maybe even on one of the ENWorld threads here a while back) that he played through the Gaxmoor stuff with his son(s) when it was either being written/after it was written/something to that effect.