Gygax's views on OGL

[Desdichado]

2. Is there more, less, or the same amount of high quality material?

Easy answer: there is more. There is exactly as much quality material as WotC is capable of publishing, plus whatever additional gems were published via the OGL. Of course, if it isn't profitable to WotC, then this will not be repeated.

3. Is it easier, harder or the same to FIND that quality material?

Not so easy: On the one hand, you can buy only WotC stuff. Plenty of people do, and that is exactly as difficult to do as it was prior to the OGL. In that sense, Gary Gygax is completely off his rocker - anyone who decides to accept WotC's quality control is perfectly capable of doing so.

The difference is that there's now more than just WotC's narrow little world available. Picking the quality stuff there requires more picking and choosing, however.

This whole quoted section above builds off of the (IMO) mistaken assumption that WotC material is high quality by default. There've been plenty of WotC products that I've been disappointed in, plenty of WotC that are fine, but which are trumped by better 3rd party books on the same subject, and probably (although off the top of my head I can't think of any) a very few WotC books that actually are the best of their type out there for d20.

 

[Walter_J]

Hi Walter, please see my previous post responding to BiggusGeekus' post. My brother probably would not have found out about a non-OGL/non-D20 version of a Barsoom RPG. His half-orc died 26 years ago real time and that was his only experience with RPGs until 2 years ago.

I think we are also missing the fact that there are probably many current and would be publishers out there that go ahead and use the OGL as it saves time and money with respect to designing and playtesting the game. You don't have to devote any time to designing the character generation process or figuring out XP awards for CRs or designing an XP table or designing the system you use for attributes...and you don't have to playtest these facets of the game either. It's done for you. You can focus on your milieu specific aspects of the game.

Yea, I shouldn't have killed my brother's first PC then.

Thanks,
Rich

I apologize. I didn't get to read your original post because the boards were slow. So YOU are the reason your brother got into RPG's, and not the OGL at all. Just kidding.

For the rest of your post--Absolutely. I'm working on a FRPG that I intend to publish and the only way I could do it is with the OGL (at least legally). I want it to be d20 compatible both as a time saver and so that all the other d20 material can be used with it. (I may be creating a game that I'll be GMing for friends and family, but I'm not about to let 100's of $'s of source material set around unused at the same time.)

 

[rgard]

I apologize. I didn't get to read your original post because the boards were slow. So YOU are the reason your brother got into RPG's, and not the OGL at all. Just kidding.

For the rest of your post--Absolutely. I'm working on a FRPG that I intend to publish and the only way I could do it is with the OGL (at least legally). I want it to be d20 compatible both as a time saver and so that all the other d20 material can be used with it. (I may be creating a game that I'll be GMing for friends and family, but I'm not about to let 100's of $'s of source material set around unused at the same time.)

Yes, I'm the reason, oh no, I have to peel back another layer! My gaming group had played 1E and we had never played 2E and had pretty much stopped playing D&D as of 1997. OGL is what brought me back to the hobby and so on and so on and so on...I should do a flow diagram for this!

Anyway, good luck with your FRPG! I'm working on one as well. I'll at least inflict it on my kids and friends!

Thanks!
Rich

 

[Zappo]

Both Gygax & WOTC used an approach appropriate for their time.

Yes. That's the point. The roleplaying industry is cursed, because players as a whole want a lot of different products, but any given player will only purchase very few. In these conditions, the OGL was a good way to really make D&D profitable and the fans happy.

 

[rgard]

I apologize. I didn't get to read your original post because the boards were slow. So YOU are the reason your brother got into RPG's, and not the OGL at all. Just kidding.

For the rest of your post--Absolutely. I'm working on a FRPG that I intend to publish and the only way I could do it is with the OGL (at least legally). I want it to be d20 compatible both as a time saver and so that all the other d20 material can be used with it. (I may be creating a game that I'll be GMing for friends and family, but I'm not about to let 100's of $'s of source material set around unused at the same time.)

On your 'at least legally' point...this makes a huge difference. I wonder just how much $ I'm going to spend on Gary Gygax's next endeavor? Lejendary Journeys? I wonder how much time I'll devote to teaching my kids his new system? I also wonder how much time and effort I will invest in writing modules and source books for it to submit to him hoping he reads it, likes it and decides to pay me for my efforts? The answer to all the above will probably be zip. I heard some of his releases will be dual house/D20 so I will at least look at them at the store.

That said, I am grateful to Gary and the others who created this whole hobby. I have friends today who I met in 1979 while playing D&D. I have quality time (pardon the jargon, but it's true) with my kids as a result of this hobby. Sure, we'd find something else to do together, but RPGs also do wonders for honing the math skills of 4th and 6th graders.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

Who Cares What Gary Thinks????

Hello all,

What I want to know is which bright individual's idea was it to ask Mr. Gygax the questions that were asked? From day one I've known Gary's feelings about d20 and the OGL from interviews he gave back in 2000. It's never been a secret and he's made it quite clear on several occasions.

Even on the long running Q & A threads here on ENWorld Gary has always skillfully stepped around questions asked about the new edition and he has instead said that he'd rather concentrate on DJ.

So lets stop worrying about what Gary thinks and just game.

Son of Thunder

 

[Walter_J]

Yes, I'm the reason, oh no, I have to peel back another layer! My gaming group had played 1E and we had never played 2E and had pretty much stopped playing D&D as of 1997. OGL is what brought me back to the hobby and so on and so on and so on...I should do a flow diagram for this!

Anyway, good luck with your FRPG! I'm working on one as well. I'll at least inflict it on my kids and friends!

Thanks!
Rich

I know what you mean. I started back in '81 at my older brother's house. I had no idea what was going on, but I had a heck of a good time. I was gaming with him and his friends, then I introduced the game via the blue book to some of my friends, and pretty soon we were all gaming together. At one point I actually had a brand new white box set in my hands and could kick myself because I had my mother take it back! I was in the hospital, and Mom surprised me with it to chear me up and keep my mind occupied. Being a dumb kid, though, I wanted the "new" boxed set and had her exchange it. I still could kick myself. We didn't play D&D much during the late 90's either, and had stopped all together for several years. Stumbling across Eric Noah's website, and news of 3E got me back into it. I bought 5 PHB's during the first few weeks after the release--one for myself, my brother, two old gaming buddies, and a guy I met at work. (I figured, handing someone a shiny new book cuts down on arguments about tyring a new game!)

Thanks, and good luck with your game too! Put a thread up about it sometime. It sounds like we are doing it for similar reasons. My big test will be when I hand the rules to my cousin (who knows next to nothing about RPGs) to give to her children (ages 8-12, roughly). If they can start gaming on their own with those rules, I'll have succeeded. If not, I'll blame my cousin for not insuring those children had a proper education!

 

[dead]

I don't care if there's a crap load of bad d20 products out there (WotC included). If you buy 'em, then you're the sucker.

What I'm concerned about is that there's only 20% non-d20/OGL in my game shop these days when it used to be 50% before d20/OGL (the other half was AD&D, of course). Sure, I know D&D was always huge but it seems even bigger now when you include all the d20/OGL products that follow it around.

Are these percentages a global trend or is it just that I'm living in a back-water, derelict town?

 

[rgard]

I know what you mean. I started back in '81 at my older brother's house. I had no idea what was going on, but I had a heck of a good time. I was gaming with him and his friends, then I introduced the game via the blue book to some of my friends, and pretty soon we were all gaming together. At one point I actually had a brand new white box set in my hands and could kick myself because I had my mother take it back! I was in the hospital, and Mom surprised me with it to chear me up and keep my mind occupied. Being a dumb kid, though, I wanted the "new" boxed set and had her exchange it. I still could kick myself. We didn't play D&D much during the late 90's either, and had stopped all together for several years. Stumbling across Eric Noah's website, and news of 3E got me back into it. I bought 5 PHB's during the first few weeks after the release--one for myself, my brother, two old gaming buddies, and a guy I met at work. (I figured, handing someone a shiny new book cuts down on arguments about tyring a new game!)

Thanks, and good luck with your game too! Put a thread up about it sometime. It sounds like we are doing it for similar reasons. My big test will be when I hand the rules to my cousin (who knows next to nothing about RPGs) to give to her children (ages 8-12, roughly). If they can start gaming on their own with those rules, I'll have succeeded. If not, I'll blame my cousin for not insuring those children had a proper education!

Here's how I got interested in 3E. I wandered into the local game store, saw they had the new edition and took a look at the PHB. First thing I saw was the Sorcerer class. I read it and thought, "I bet I can backwards engineer this into a 1E class! I'll give it a MU THAC0, maybe the MU or Illusionist level/xp progression table." How goofy is that? Then I found out about OGL and I was hooked.

I'll get something posted about the sourcebook one of these days. Nothing of it is ready from prime time yet, but it's fun to work on knowing I can do something with it if I want!

Have you posted a thread about yours yet? I would love to see what you've posted if you have.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[MerricB]

The point at which I significantly diverge from Gary's point of view is that he assumes (and I have no idea why, given his history), that the people running D&D know what they're doing.

I think that the current team running D&D know what they're doing. I think Gary knew what he was doing. I don't think for the period from when Gary lost control until Wizards took over that a certain woman knew what she was doing.

As we discovered, bad management of the D&D brand can kill it. It almost happened.

Another thing I strongly disagree with is the idea that "d20 System" = "D&D" in the minds of most people. Not at all! Certainly not for the general public, and unlikely to be so even in the gaming population.

Who here's equates a "d20 System" product with "D&D"? I see those products as being "compatible with D&D", but that's a long way from being "D&D". When I see a D&D product, I expect a certain standard of product that I do not expect from a normal d20 System product.

I have a feeling that view is held even by people who don't like Wizards' D&D books - they have found a d20 company they like, but they don't see them as being "D&D" products but more in the line of "Sword & Sorcery" products, or "Necromancer Games" products, or suchlike.

Cheers!