Had any luck converting 3.x material to 4E?

[Rechan]

The only thing that I think would be difficult would be alternate systems of magic/subsystems, if you want to make them subsystems instead of integrated into the existing 4e framework of at will/encounter/dailies.

 

[ggroy]

The only thing that I think would be difficult would be alternate systems of magic/subsystems, if you want to make them subsystems instead of integrated into the existing 4e framework of at will/encounter/dailies.

If I was to (re)implement a Vancian system of magic into 4E, I would probably make many of the combat type spells into encounters or dailies. For example, a magic missile which always hit would be made into an encounter power.

 

[the Jester]

Easy peasy, at least so far.

I've done a few spells and feats (into powers), and a whole buttload of monsters.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

I'm more concerned with setting material or adventures than crunch like, say, a prestige class or alternate magic system but I'm interested in hearing about it all. For example I'm looking at the beauty that is Ptolus or the various Pathfinder adventures and wondering if I'll ever use them. Would it be as simple as dropping in PC's, NPC's and monsters of equal level? My guess is the answer is NO but I haven't tried it so I can't say.

I've started a 4e campign in Ptolus and having an easy time converting the stuff.

The 4e-assumption that not every creature reads the rulebooks before it does anything, helps a lot. I usually take just the fluffy part of an NSC and roleplay her without any rules. If I have to implement some rules in such an encounter, I take some fitting rules element or power from 4e and go with it.

Combat encounters need a bit more preparation, but are pretty easy to do as well. For low-level encounters I use the XP according to CR as a basis. This gives me the XP-budget for the encounter in 4e. Cracking up the MOnster Manual or DDI, one re-builds the encounter with this budget.

Experience shows that you should usually use more creatures in the converted encounter; nothing is as boring in 4e as several fights against solo monsters after each other. Use the XP-budget to populate the scene.

This leads to another likely change: 4e battles need space. As building in Ptolus are typically not so spacious, be prepared to let the battle spill onto the streets. This in turn leads to chases, whcih can be modeled using Skill Challenges.

My main mantra is not to tie down everything and prepare for every eventuality, but to improvise and go with the flow.

 

[Rechan]

If I was to (re)implement a Vancian system of magic into 4E, I would probably make many of the combat type spells into encounters or dailies. For example, a magic missile which always hit would be made into an encounter power.

I meant more like Psionics' point based system, or Incarnum, or Truenaming, etc.

If you want them to remain sub systems (i.e put the Psionics' point based system into 4e) that's going to get tough. If you JUST turn them into encounter/daily powers, then it's easier.

 

[ggroy]

I meant more like Psionics' point based system, or Incarnum, or Truenaming, etc.

If you want them to remain sub systems (i.e put the Psionics' point based system into 4e) that's going to get tough. If you JUST turn them into encounter/daily powers, then it's easier.

Another way is to turn a particular power into an at-will which requires a "recharge" after being used. Easiest way to implement a "recharge", is to require a roll of 5 or 6 on a d6 as a minor action (basically a 33% probability of recharging).

 

[Odysseus]

I've struggled converting some 3e encounters. But I think this is more to do with how well the original encounter was written. With 4e you have to consider the terrain, the monster tactics/role as well as balencing the size of the encounter. Changeing stat blocks and adjusting the number of monsters won't cut it.
I've come to the conclusion that if the original encounter doesn't take into account terrain and tactics. I might as well build a new encounter from scratch.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

If you try to translate 3e adventures too literally, you might have a frustrating time. As others have said, you need to be somewhat fluid in your conversion.

For example, one of my 3e Dungeon Crawl Classics begins a 1st-level adventure with a fight against a single ogre. For a party of four 1st-level PCs in 4e, you might think that a single ogre brute (level 8, 350 XP) is a decent first encounter for a first adventure, but chances are you'd want to substitute a lower-level monster or monsters, or rebuild the ogre as a level 1 solo (and make sure the terrain is interesting).

Interestingly, the problem with the ogre is just that 4E assumes you'll fight ogres as an 8th-level party, one ogre per PC. Similarly, in 3E, four ogres is theoretically a EL 7 encounter, appropriate for a 7th-level party. But by making a single ogre CR 3, 3E opened the door for a low-level party to fight a single ogre. You'll just need to watch out for issues like this one. If you don't want to rebuild the ogre as a level 1 solo (or reskin an existing low-level elite or solo), you need to take a step back and figure out what other monster would fit the intended flavor and challenge.

 

[CapnZapp]

For those of you who have tried, have you had any luck converting 3.x material to 4E? What has the experience been like? Difficult? Easy?Frustrating?

I'm more concerned with setting material or adventures than crunch like, say, a prestige class or alternate magic system but I'm interested in hearing about it all.

Well, it depends.

On one hand you're asking about conversions, on the other you're not asking about crunch.

As you don't really need to "convert" ides for setting or scenarios, I'm not sure what's left.

What I CAN add to the discussion, however, is this:

I'm using the Necromancer module "Vault of Larin Karr" for my 4E game. It's going well - the trick is not to focus on the conversion.

Instead, run the plot(s) as describd in your module, but then don't try to convert 3E crunch. Instead, simply use 4E equivalents. A Troll becomes... a Troll. An Orc an Orc (and MM gives you several pre-statted varieties to choose from).

Sometimes (rather often, in fact) there isn't a direct or close equivalent. A lurking human NPC with murderous tendencies might be easiest to stat as a reskinned Hafling Slinger or Bugbear Stranger (I think they're called). All depending on level and your needs.

It doesn't need to be exact - or even close.

If you're instead asking about "official" conversions of 3E modules, where you do need to be accurate, I really can't help you. That's a truckload of work, and I'm honestly not sure it's worth it.

Better then to focus your efforts where it's needed. Things like expanding maps (4E combats needs much more space than 3E combats) and combining encounters (encounters with a few stray or random monsters that work well in 3E does not work at all in 4E); replacing magic items with 4E equivalents and so on.

When I started out I assumed I should create a lot of "new" (=old) monsters for my campaign. That's only wasted effort. Use the MM for all its worth, and when the player's have seen it all, re-skin, mix up abilities and use it again!

 

[Bagpuss]

For those of you who have tried, have you had any luck converting 3.x material to 4E? What has the experience been like? Difficult? Easy?Frustrating?

All of the above, but I'm also finding it enjoyable. I'm currently coverting the remainder of our Savage Tide campaign (From Lightless Depths onwards) to 4E. We have been playing other campaigns and are now returning to this.

Would it be as simple as dropping in PC's, NPC's and monsters of equal level? My guess is the answer is NO but I haven't tried it so I can't say.

Not of equal level no. Best idea is to have a plan before you start converting. Check Stewart Perkins posts in this thread on converting Savage Tide at Paizo for an example.

Things you need to consider are

• What level are the players, what level do you want them to be when they finish?
• What level is the original adventure?
• How many encounters do you need to get to the goal?

For Savage Tide campaign this was pretty clear, Start at level 1, and get to level 30 by the end. That nicely worked out to be about 2.5 levels per published adventure.

Taking the example of Lightless Depths which my PCs were about to start before we switched over to 4E and played other campaigns. In 3rd Ed they were 11th level (half way to 20th), so at first I thought they should be about level 15-16 (half way to 30th). But working on 2.5 level an adventure they only needed to be about 13th.

So I need my players to go from 13th to 15th and a half level by the end of it. I needed (for my six players) 48000 XP by the mid point in the adventure. This gave me a target to aim for and to make sure my encounters added up to that. You should aim for about 10 encounters (give or take a quest reward) to get to that total.

You will probably come across the following problems when converting published adventures.

1. Creature is wrong level for encounter
2. Single high CR monster or identical pair of monsters.
3. Creature not yet stated in 4E.
4. Terrain is too tight for your new encounter.

1. Creature is wrong level for encounter.

You have a number of options here. If the creature is only out by a couple of levels you can either use more or less of them than the original encounter suggests to meet your XP budget. Or you could level them up or down based on the DMG guidelines (pg 174). Or both.

If the creature is more than five or levels out of your character level. Then you are best either replacing it with a similar typed monster, or recalculating things from scratch (DMG 184) and applying the original creature's racial abilities (check the back of the MM).

2. Single high CR monster or identical pair of monsters.

This is a particularly common encounter in 3rd Ed adventures since a standard fight was against a single creature = in CR to the party's level. In 4E it's about one creature per PC of equal level. For some creatures that doesn't work, and besides a group of black puddings isn't that interesting a fight. In 4E you should aim to mix things up a bit more. Try and avoid too many fights like this.

Swap out the single encounter for a mixed group where you can. Try and keep the spirit of the original encounter if you can. Where you end up using a solo creature, you might want to look at some of the MM2 solo's and make some updates to MM1 ones since they seem a little under powered in comparison. Also add a hazard or trap with the solo creature to make the terrain more of a feature.

3. Creature not yet stated in 4E.

Replace it with one of the right level and appropriate to adventure or build it using the rules in the DMG and the monster manuals, and what you know it was like in 3rd Ed. Saying that don't feel you have to stick too close to 3rd Ed, it's always good to surprise your players. If you are worried about your design post it in these forums you will probably get some helpful feedback. Look at it as an opportunity to be creative and keep the players on their toes.

4. Terrain is too tight for your new encounter.

Sorry but because you will probably upped the number of creatures in the fight the chances are that the map is going to be too small. No printing that lovely map they provided. You will probably have to draw something similar but larger on a battlemat. Try to avoid 5ft wide corridors, if you can try and interconnect areas so there are a number of routes the players or monsters can take to get in on the action.

If you have Lightless Depths to refer to I'll happily send you what I've done so far with my conversion so you can get a better idea of what I'm talking about.