Haggling. . .

[danzig138]

Any ideas on how to handle haggling ? And I'm looking for rule-based methods, not RPing methods. Thanks.

 

[Coredump]

All of the 'rules based' examples I have seen, have been rife with opportunities for players to exploit.

Once there is a way to maximize their ability to haggle, it can really unbalance things.

But hey, if someone has a system that does work, I would be interested also.

 

[clark411]

We've used opposed diplomacy checks.

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Or try Bluff vs Sense Motive.

 

[Arc]

Or try Bluff vs Sense Motive.

That seems logical, as the vendor is supposed to be trying to rip the PC off. Maybe add 5% to the cost of the item for every point by which the vendor wins, and subtract 5% for every point by which the PC wins. This would be useful at low levels (maybe 1-5) where characters don't have many skill points, and don't always max out Sense Motive (it's not used too often). Past level 10 though, buying items would be a joke, so for balance, you'd start seeing level 20 uber-merchants just so characters don't start buying +5 vorpal swords with their spare change.

 

[kreynolds]

Haggling was actually covered in a recent issue of Dragon (or maybe Dungeon?). I don't remember which issue, but I'm pretty sure it was within the last three. IIRC, it used what Sir Whiskers suggested, and gave DCs and the effects of meeting said DCs.

 

[Angcuru]

That seems logical, as the vendor is supposed to be trying to rip the PC off. Maybe add 5% to the cost of the item for every point by which the vendor wins, and subtract 5% for every point by which the PC wins. This would be useful at low levels (maybe 1-5) where characters don't have many skill points, and don't always max out Sense Motive (it's not used too often). Past level 10 though, buying items would be a joke, so for balance, you'd start seeing level 20 uber-merchants just so characters don't start buying +5 vorpal swords with their spare change.

Bluff vs. Sense Motive...I am SO using this. But I'd rule that the characters can't haggle the price lower than 50%. Nice and simple. But who would roll for which skill?

 

[Coredump]

But this is the exact problem. By the nature of the game, the PC will have a LOT more skill pionts to spend, and will be able to buy everything at 50% of cost, and be able to sell it at 150-200% of cost.

Hell, they could buy it from one merchant, and then just sell it to another. This is what I meant by anything that is based on numbers is easily exploitable.

Besides, why does it have to be that the merchant is trying to rip him off? That may just be his price? Maybe he just doesn't sell below 20%? Look, I don't care how good you are, I am not selling you something at 50% of what it is worth. I have heard of some great hagglers, but I don't think any of them are getting a car for 50%.


If you want to use a numbers system, I would start by picking a 'lowest price' point depending on item and location etc. Then use the numbers to see how close they got. The lowest price may only be 10% off, or it may be 60% off. But then you have to be careful when they go to sell the items.

Personally, I think this is one area best left to role playing, or at least DM judgement. Let them role, and then make up a number with their roll as an influence. But don't make it a hard and fast relationship.

.

 

[MadScientist]

Just make the ammounts that a character can adjust the price by modest to help avoid that problem. Like when selling items amek the negitiated variation a maximum +/-20% of half the value of the items and when buying items +/- 20% the full cost of the items. This way even if the PC's max out their dimplomacy skill or whatever they will get deals but never be able to sell items for more than they could buy them for.

Also keep in mind that even a low level expert with max ranks in bluff and sense motive and a skill focus feat can have a very high Diplomacy skill. A "typical merchant" IMC (a 3rd level expert) has a diplomacy skill of +14! (cha +1, ranks +6, skill focus +3, bluff synergy +2, sense motive synergy +2) It probably wouldn't be inappropriate to add synergy bonus for proffesion(merchant) to hagling type situations either. If your campaigns merchants are competant they will be more difficult to abuse.

You can also use roleplaying reasons to curb PC abuse when selling items. Perhaps the merchants guild sets prices on wholesale or used goods and there isn't a good oportunity for negotiation when selling used booty.

 

[Angcuru]

how about instead of 5% per point, you go by 1%? 2 at the most.