half cost

[Crothian]

But it doesn't have to be that way. It could be all the items were created by the wizard the party has or it could be very few of them. It's Wizards making assumptions on how you play. It just seems like a rule that cannot be explained in game. I don't really like rules that have a meta game explaination. It just doesn't sit well with me, no matter what Sean says.

So, Kreynolds, did you go to the dark side? Did they convince you that there side is right on this matter?

 

[kreynolds]

But it doesn't have to be that way. It could be all the items were created by the wizard the party has or it could be very few of them. It's Wizards making assumptions on how you play. It just seems like a rule that cannot be explained in game. I don't really like rules that have a meta game explaination. It just doesn't sit well with me, no matter what Sean says.

I get ya' now. I can see how the wizard playing might make a difference.

So, Kreynolds, did you go to the dark side? Did they convince you that there side is right on this matter?

If you tell me what side they think is right, I'll tell you whether or not I've stepped over.

 

[Macbrea]

So, does this mean if I play the spellcaster in the party that makes magic items for everyone else but not alot for myself. Items given out should only be for me?


Here is an example of one of the parties we had and items I made for other people?


Elven Sorceror 10 (me)
Items created for me: Elven cloak and boots.

Human fighter/rogue
Items created for him: Elven cloak, boots of speed, Vest of Escape, Bracers +3

Human Cleric
Items made for her: Elven cloak and boots, Vest of escape, Brooch of shielding

Human monk/drunken master
Items created for him: Elven cloak and boots, Monk's belt, Brooch of shielding

Gnome Psion/psychic warrior
Items created for him: Elven cloak and boots, Bracers +3




As you will notice more was made for the party then for myself. Does this mean items given out for the party should be talored only for the Sorceror? This happens frequently anyways as noone else in the party can handle the wands and such. And exactly how do you handle if that party also has a Fighter/wizard in it? Do you tell the players they cannot divide the treasure in such a manner that 1 player ends up with more then the rest?



I think the major problem comes in when DMs don't both to destroy items. An unattended bow laying on the ground will quickly go away if the area its in is fireballed. But how many DMs bother to effect the unattended items that were dropped? Do not be afraid to destroy stuff and then you can freely give out more then the listed amounts. On average in my games I would say I give about 1.5 to 2 times the listed amounts for the level. But I would say I also break half of that or more. Do my players complain. Not really, they get to play with alot of items that they normally wouldn't get to play with. Item attrition has to be taken into effect during a game.

 

[Crothian]

If you tell me what side they think is right, I'll tell you whether or not I've stepped over.

They think that that the half price for wizard made items is the correct way to go.

 

[kreynolds]

An unattended bow laying on the ground will quickly go away if the area its in is fireballed.

It won't be destroyed as quickly as you think. Magic items get a saving throw bonus of 2 + half caster level (if I recall correctly), and sometimes, just sometimes, they make their save and aren't affected at all by the fireball. But you're right about a DM occassionally needing to manage the party's gear, though you should do it in a very delicate fashion.

If every NPC suddenly has Improved Sunder and they all wield Shatterspike, the players might just get a bit suspiscious.

 

[kreynolds]

They think that that the half price for wizard made items is the correct way to go.

Oh yeah! I crossed over the same day the argument ended, and quite frankly, I'm very glad I did. It made my job a hellofa lot easier.

 

[Crothian]

Oh yeah! I crossed over the same day the argument ended, and quite frankly, I'm very glad I did. It made my job a hellofa lot easier.

How did it make your job easier? I would think it would be harder since you have to keep a sewperate list of all items personally created by the wizard.

 

[Macbrea]

It won't be destroyed as quickly as you think. Magic items get a saving throw bonus of 2 + half caster level (if I recall correctly), and sometimes, just sometimes, they make their save and aren't affected at all by the fireball. But you're right about a DM occassionally needing to manage the party's gear, though you should do it in a very delicate fashion.

If every NPC suddenly has Improved Sunder and they all wield Shatterspike, the players might just get a bit suspiscious.

Ok, lets take a look at this.


Longbow +5 - Hardness 10 (wood + 5), hps 15 (1 inch thick + 5) Saves (+9)

Fireball cast by a 10th level caster, Char 18 - DC 17 Average Damage 35

If the item rolls a 7 or less (35% chance of that) it takes 17 damage or the DM may rule that wood is Vulnerable to fire and apply full damage of 35. Using half damage means the bow can take on average two such shots in its entire lifetime. Saying that wood is vulnerable to fire means its gone in one shot.

 

[kreynolds]

Ok, lets take a look at this.

Longbow +5 - Hardness 10 (wood + 5), hps 15 (1 inch thick + 5) Saves (+9)

Fireball cast by a 10th level caster, Char 18 - DC 17 Average Damage 35

If the item rolls a 7 or less (35% chance of that) it takes 17 damage or the DM may rule that wood is Vulnerable to fire and apply full damage of 35. Using half damage means the bow can take on average two such shots in its entire lifetime. Saying that wood is vulnerable to fire means its gone in one shot.

I take that you completely missed this part of my post. Here. I'll try again...

Magic items get a saving throw bonus of 2 + half caster level (if I recall correctly), and sometimes, just sometimes, they make their save...

Did I say they always make their save? Nope. Did I even say they usually make their save? Nope. I merely stated that it was possible.

 

[Macbrea]

Yes, I realize they get thier saves and am fully willing to give them to the item. Now, this tactic doesn't work as well if your party never drops an item during a fight. As you will have to go out of your way to sunder items. Or wait until they roll a 1 on a savings throw.

How the system is currently written a person falling into a pit of lava protects their items until they die. Then the item becomes unattended. That is a weird fact of how the system is written. We just except it has oddities and move on. Statisticly items should break about once every 3 games of heavy fighting. In my current campaign that means about once every 9 games.